Having done some zwift racing lately (I feel like a broken record with that, apologies for anyone who’s seeing me repeat myself lol) I personally feel like constant 40-60mins at sweet spot is less palatable than doing intervals in the TR workouts. It takes a bit of psyching up for me to want to go day in and day out for an hour straight. I think breaking things up is better mentally, and frankly I think it does most of the work of a continuous interval.
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I think you have to go to vo2max work when you hit the ceiling. When your FTP is 83-85% of VO2max.
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Great question! I’m planning my base season too and I’m looking to do a similar progression.
However, regarding the fatigue dependent approach, personally I wouldn’t do VO2>FTP>SST unless you want to train specifically for back to back hard days like for stage races. I’m probably going to do VO2>short Z2>FTP like in TR plans and then SS on Saturday and long Z2 on Sunday, another approach would be VO2>FTP>Z2.
Interested to see what other people think.
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I totally agree. Based on previous experience I know I need a day off after VO2 to be able to maintain consistency. I am training for an IRONMAN so perhaps having ON OFF type of structure would be more beneficial when thinking about the other disciplines as well.
In one word: endurance!
Remember that the main idea/purpose of SST is to be a substitute for endurance rides for the time-crunched cyclist.
This sweet spot progression program builds your ”SST endurance” the same way as e.g. starting of with an 2h endurance ride, then steadily increasing duration all the way up to, say, 6h.
According to experts you 1) shouldnt do shorter SST intervalls than 20min, 2) 3min rest is enough, 3) favour TiZ progression rather than increasing watts.
And regarding no. 3, a good idea is to align the lenght (as in time) of you A-Race with the longest SST intervall.
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I don’t know for sure, but I would say it’s because shorter intervals mentally easier for most people.
The longer intervals help build larger motor units and get your muscles used to longer efforts.
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For SST/FTP intervals, longer durations are better. So 2x30 is better than 3x20. However, the idea is that if you do have breaks, you can do a greater total of TiZ - so maybe 4x20 instead of 1x60.
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What are the thoughts of the more experienced people about how little sweet spot (basically none) and how much threshold (lots) there is in SSBLV2. I am pretty new to this so even if something seems suspect I am going to go ahead with it at least this first time through. Just asking everyone’s thoughts.
As a newer rider I am sure I need everything so exactly what I choose probably does not matter but as I was dying on 10 minute threshold intervals today I was wondering if longer intervals at sweet spot might do the same thing. I am pretty sure I need more of both either way. My monday vo2max sessions I can move up 5%, maybe more and they still feel pretty doable. The saturday 90 minute over under stuff is hard but also doable at +5%. The thursday longer intervals at threshold are brutal at 100%, i want to quit by the end of every single one and am sure i wont be able to finish the next one after each.
It is possible the harder stuff is easier and the easy stuff is harder for lower FTP beginners because our legs dont feel %s the feel watts? 120% is 120% but a 40watt jump at 200 ftp is just not as big a deal as 70 for a 350 ftp rider. On the other side my difference between threshold and sweetspot is like 10 watts, still very nearly as hard.
In this context how do you define / work out your vo2 wattage to calculate the 83-85%. I am keen to work this out for myself as I sense my ftp gains this year will need to Be driven by lifting my higher end wattage as believe this is a weakness
Five thoughts from another newbie:
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Yes, it’s perfectly possible that you’re stronger in one area/system than in other. It’s quite reasonable to struggle more in one type of workout than another.
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TR calculates your workload per week. If you’re pushing two workouts up by 5% or more because you’re stronger in those areas of work, then you’re making the third workout even more brutal than it already was. Don’t be a hero on the ones where you feel you can do more: you’re just creating more fatigue and making it harder overall.
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If you’re completing the workout, congratulations! If it feels too hard, there’s no shame in knocking the intensity down a point or two, or five, if that’s what you need and what you’re able to do. Also, Coach Chad has said repeatedly that if you manage to get through at least 90% of the work scheduled for a session, you’ve succeeded.
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But it sounds like you ARE completing that brutal workout, which means that it HURTS but you CAN do it and you’re getting STRONGER. Over time, it will feel easier. And you’ll also believe in yourself more. You’ll build both power and confidence.
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I realized that many workouts were brutal to me because I had some strength but no muscular endurance. Working on longer endurance rides, and increasingly-long sweet-spot intervals, has been a godsend. Add some of those to your life and they will help.
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100% agree. This is what prompted me to create my own sweet spot progression - the TR workouts were too fatiguing.
Are you just swapping those in for the threshold work? Some weeks are you still going the threshold work and just making the whole progression longer?
When I was doing a TR plan, I swapped the TR sweet spot/threshold workouts out for my ones.
And augmented indoor workouts with outside rides. So the end result looked reasonably different vs just a TR plan.
One thing to keep in mind is that the point of SSBII is to prepare you for build. That’s why the intensity starts to ramp and serve as a bridge to the even more intense build progressions.
Build also has too many threshold sessions for my liking. I’ve been riding stronger this year with much better fatigue resistance by swapping threshold sessions for sweet spot.
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Yesterday i did 3x20min SST with 3min rest on Zwift. Outside i ride 250w with heartrate around 175 (88% from max hr). Indoor my heartrate are going above 180 with 250w, so i did 245w indoor. A little under my SST range (FTP 280). I use 2 fans for cooling.
Is it a problem thats my heartrate going above 90% of max hr and do i have to pace on the power, or do i have to lower the power and pace on the heartrate?
Unfortunately there’s no correct answer to that. I also tend to have almost 20 Watt higher avg outside than on the trainer, combined with a lower HR.
However, IMO, during early Base and Base period you should follow your heart (rate). Simply because you want to maximize TiZ and build that aerobic base. Closer to race season it will be more important to hit the watts!
And regarding the 90% of max HR rule, I would say that as long as you stay (a bit) below your AnT, you should be fine. Still, this is highly individual because someone might have their AnT below the 90% cap, which then again would make the SST workouts above threshold…
Personally I like the Steve Neal 82% Hr cap for sweetspot. I find in the last part of my final rep I start to approach this.
In the past I’ve always set FTP too high and not enjoyed Sweetspot workouts indoors, and eventually crashed and burned in my training. I’ve just done 3 x 25 mins @ 88% FTP and HR never over 140bpm. Outdoors as terrain alters and you get out of the saddle on a climb sometimes it creeps over but settles back down.
Just my experience.
Just do what I do and take 5mg Bisoprolol each day and you never have to worry about your HR going above 130bpm (in my case 
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82% seems low, 85% I feel is more appropriate. But that’s before we get onto the issued with HR as an anchor.
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