Is there a significant difference in training stimulus between threshold and higher end sweetspot workouts?
I’ve done my fair share of threshold sessions in the past but I realized that I seemed to rapidly lose my high-end anaerobic capabilities while doing (steady) threshold sessions near the end of my build phase. So now I’m considering switching the threshold sessions to sweetspot workouts with a bit higher volume. That, I hope, would keep me fresher for VO2 and anaerobic workouts and I could also perform better at the early season races.
My main events are rolling road races without any significant hills and my strengths lie on hard 3-5 minute efforts towards the end of the race. In other words, I’m not going to be doing any significant efforts at my threshold during races. I think some over-unders would be beneficial to simulate the race day but something like 20 minute steady threshold efforts seem unecessary.
tl;dr: Switching threshold workouts to sweetspot workouts - yay or nay?
Now I have a problem (:-)). Yesterday had a 3x15 FTP planned. But went outdoors and after 10min’s I decided to do a 1x40min Z4. It was not a test but just wanted to see what I could manage (after more indoor miles last months). I got 40min 273W. And before I got home also did a 1min effort. So with my 4min and 12min of my aerotune test of last week, I have some new values for my PDC curve. Result, (mFTP 277W and %Vo2max is 84%). Soooooo…I am now in my extensive block but it seems Vo2max work is more the way too go? But maybe I just do another 3min test all-out in order to see if my VO2max could be a little higher and my percentage will be little less? (pVo2max is 341W)
Maybe just continue this block (2 weeks done, 2 to go) but use a sweetspot session and a vo2max session (replace FTP session).
That is the model that should have enough good data. But a 1/4/12min effort and a 40min workout should normally be ok I think. Certainly because the.40min was not a real test because no fresh legs and not all-out from the start…
Kolie Moore has said work threshold until you can do about an hour at FTP. Not saying 40 mins is your TTE, but that’s about the minimum to derive a reasonably accurate FTP number from everything I’ve read.
Also agree with previous post that it seems weird that mFTP is higher than your 40 min power.
I’d suggest to see if you can push 275w (or more based on feel) for longer, especially if you weren’t very fresh.
Or simply that modeled power curve is a best fit across all durations, and can be influenced by outliers at both short and long ends of your actual data.
Yep. That is why I asked this question to my friends here at the forum ;-). It was also a concern for me…So…rest of the week some solid Z2 work with some normalized residuals testing…
So in parallel to what I’m showing, your actual at 40 minutes was 273, while mFTP is higher at 277 and TTE of 42:53. Which implies that if you map mFTP on your actual curve, your mFTP power occurs before the 40-min effort you did. Just like I’m showing above.
in other words, the difference between modeled power curve and your actual curve. Don’t immediately red flag it, it may simply be a modeling artifact. Notice how WKO didn’t ask me to go out and do a 2.5 hour max effort.
Lucky you ;-).
Just kidding. Really great post. Thx. I Will check my curve. I Will post later here…
But thing is that I mostly did indoor sessions the previous months. The ones outside was just Z2. And I use different FTP values because indoor it is 20-15w less. But my PDC outdoor is in progress. Altough I have a 1m, 4m and 12m efforts also. But normalized residuals give some efforts to test in the shorter durations.
Well, seems like there might be some curve work to do as others pointed out, and in any event, I think extensive work is still a good place for you to be right now.
Think I may have overdone it a bit with my progression but wanted to get your thoughts. I’m in my third week and hitting a wall with fatigue. Tried to get on yesterday and 90% felt like VO2; legs are so tired. Everything is at 90% FTP.
6-week TSS when I started was 352. Coming off a rest week.
Week 1: 3x12, 3x15, 1x40, 3x18 - TIZ 175min, 386 TSS (with added Z2), 6 hours on bike.
Week 2: 3x20, 2x30, 1x60 - TIZ 180min, 415 TSS, 6:34 on bike.
Week 3: Monday 4x20, then hit a wall trying to do a 4x20 on Wednesday, with a 3x30 planned this weekend. Would be around 485TSS and 7:30 on the bike if I completed it, but bailed on the second 4x20.
Did I ramp too fast? I’ve been eating like it’s my job and trying to get 8-9 hours of sleep a night. I have a demanding job but it hasn’t changed at all recently, meaning I’m still working my same hours (maybe even less) that I have for the last 6 months. I’ve given myself a day between workouts except the first week where I did back to back days once. My plan was to do a 3 week block extending time at 90%, take a rest week, then go into a threshold block extending time/above threshold. Then hit VO2 after that. A race isn’t until early August but have some B and C races starting in May. Should I push through and do the 3x30 this weekend, then take my rest week or stop now and give myself rest?
4x20 and 3x30 are Big workouts for a lot of people. Two per week at that level. Maybe you could add a little tempo midweek, but generally two 4x20s and a 3x30 is too much for a your “average joe” riders.
Your progression up to that point was OK… you want to be pretty aggressive with it…. It’s just that 4 workouts per week isn’t great at any level, and then 3 at 4x20-3x30 is probably too much.
You went from 36 to 60 in two weeks then tried to go 60 to 80 twice in three days.
I was trying to just ramp up the total TIZ for the week. Which looking at it again was a huge jump this week (175, 180, 270). I probably should have shot for maybe 2 workouts (4x20, 3x30) spaced at the ends and maybe a shorter midweek 1x30 or something to keep the TIZ for the week up. So I guess my question is: is the goal to just increase the interval length or total TIZ per week or session? Or both? In other words, should I set my goal to finish the 4x20 and 3x30, knowing that my total TIZ is lower (for the week), but that’s fine because my workout TIZ has increased.
I’m not sure I understand this. Are you saying 4 workouts isn’t enough or too much?
