Out of curiosity (and a bit of boredom tbh), as a non-sufferfest user … how does this actually look like in the app?
I have no experience with it. Just skimmed the marketing blurbs and.seen some users mention it.
I’m trying SF at the moment and the mental training part is my least favorite…
You can integrate a mental training program in your plan. You get some session per week, where you listen to some instructions and complete some tasks with a PDF companion diary.
It’s not bad and decently executed. My issues are that it is mainly focused at one goal (like a race or a result) instead than a process; also, it is too much on reaffirming yourself and feeding your ego for myself…
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Just to be clear, Trainer road did not invent the ramp test
Here’s a video about how to do one in Zwift, 2 years before the trainer road one
And look, heres a golden cheeta one 2013 !!!
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As far as I am aware, ramp tests have been performed in sports labs for decades
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According to Andrew Corgan, in this thread on slow twitch, Ric Stern came up with the ramp test around 2000 !!!
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“I think it’s unfair to paint SUF as some sort of copycat.”
SUF copied 4DP from TP’s classic power profiling, then claimed it was original while loudly declaring “FTP is dead!” to try to steal some of TP’s clents. How much more evidence do you need?
Not sure about that - I remember doing one at an outdoor trade show in around 1984 so I don’t think it was novel even then.
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Or you can include Lambert’s test from 1918 but for running 
I think the difference is the purpose of doing the test. Is the goal to determine VO2max, or to estimate FTP? Obviously there can’t have been a ramp test to do the latter until the idea of FTP came along.
Based on that, it would seem that Stern deserves credit for being the first.
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Let’s call a spade a spade here. Not a single platform offering online training has any proprietary credit in the methodology of the actual training itself.
Zero.
Why? Because they’re not exercise physiologists that have being studying and publishing this topic for a very long time. That’s their job.
Does it matter? Nope. Log in. Select workout. Enjoy your training. That’s our job.
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Cool absolutely, reading it again and he states that Ric Stern had been doing it for 2 decades, not Ric Stern invented it 2 decades ago
And thanks for confirming my point , TR didn’t invent the ramp test
Absolutely … this
Funny how stuff advertised around Zwift becomes mainstream. That particular protocol isn’t used by anyone except as marketed by that trainer and seems to be missing other parameters (I hope, blood draw? HR?). Seem vaguely familiar to VO2 max and lactic acid testing. Zwift takes the easy way out, i.e. 95% of 20 MMP = FTP, and muddle the science/application.
FWIW, Ric Stern came up with the British Cycling’s MAP Test protocol using a power meter, Ramp Testing — CycleCoach | Personal cycling coach. The correlation between MAP and FTP is a range between 73% to 77%, https://wattmatters.blog/home/2008/01/graphical-representation-of-training.html. And yes, the cycle ergometer test of maximal aerobic power been around much longer but how many have one of them at home?
I feel like the Mental Training is my least favorite part of the Sufferfest platform. It does focus on one major event and stresses all the small goals to get to the larger overall goal event. In fairness, I haven’t gone through all of it but some of the tips are good like the visualizations to focus before a big workout but you have to be open to the process in order for it to work like any program and the mental side is like doing yoga for the first time. It’s weird but once you embrace it, it’s pretty good.
That being said, they are releasing new workouts often. If you aren’t interested in the race footage you can turn that off, or turn off the music, and some workouts are without video. Their Yoga and Strength program is REALLY good.
It’s a solid platform from a software standpoint. I don’t experience many glitches.
I’ll stick with TR and Suff and just cancelled my trial Zwift subscription. I just didn’t get into that platform but many folks really like it. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
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no offense but this seems like a really odd thing to get on such a high horse about. Suf’s profiling is partially fluff but also offers a useful functionality within their system to set workout targets, identify strengths and weaknesses, and such like. TP’s also works within their system, key point. The fact that it’s simlar functionality is kind of irrelevant. You might as well say that TP’s PDC is a rip-off of running coaches who’ve known literally forever that everyone has a mile pace, a 400m pace, 800m pace, etc.
Stealing clients! what dastardly behavior!
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By the way, since I’m still on free trial and last tuesday i had the test planned on TR, i did the Half Monty instead.
First, after the subsequent workouts, the FTP is clearly well estimated. But also i find it nice to get a couple of other bits from the test, namely MAP power and LTHR. Not really crucial, yet if I had a choice between the two i would probably do the SF one.
I suppose TR can (will?) implement something similar or improve their ramp test in the future.
Indeed when I started with TR years ago i used to test with the 20 minutes, then the 8 minutes…
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IF SF copied TP then they did it very well. 
My FTP estimations from WKO4 (mFTP) and SF Half Monty are 2W different. That was unexpected and good enough for me to be honest.
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Hardly going to say they nailed it! The sufferfest 4DP is superior in prescribing intervals over % based, one size fits all FTP prescribed intervals. As a long time TR user, I’m honest enough to admit that the guys are way beind some of their competitors in individualised training. I hate the SF app and the way the workouts are distributed, but in terms of marketing, TR’s slick website and app is still just a % based off the shelf, one size fits all FTP programme which you can pick up cheaply anywhere.
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Agreed. Being a seasoned Super-veteran athlete I know where my weaknesses are, and apart from tiring me out, the 20 minute FTP test has simply confirmed that. So, like you, I`m not going to waste my strength doing one each month, but focus on sticking to the plan, then going into the build phse, then the speciality phase ready for the cx, and late season MTB races!
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