I’m going to go out on a limb and say that 17% is pretty generous. In my circles, the ramp test is believed to overstate FTP more commonly than in 17% of cases, and these are mostly triathletes, so you can’t say we’re very anaerobically fit by and large.
Unless Sufferfest defined what is meant by “inaccurate” (within 1 W? 5 W? a certain percentage?), it is a completely meaningless claim.
All it really shows is how easy it is to snow people with numbers, especially if you throw in things like correlation coefficients.
So Sufferfest, what say you? How about the actual data to back up your number?
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Great point that I completely missed! Still, my feeling based on talking to people and listening to coaches opine on the subject, which is obviously as “bro science” as it gets: >5% overstatement in at least 30% of cases.
This is some eye-rolling marketing fluff. The only measure of their test they visit is saying that it spits out 3 numbers instead of one. No analysis of why or how anything is more accurate, just… that it gives some more numbers.
My impression is that this is exactly as accurate as every other ramp test.
I agree - all tests are an approximation and should be treated as such. It’s a point in time bench mark to base training on and I doubt any test such as TrainerRoad, Zwift, SF is that much different given each test in themselves would give different results each day of the week if we could perform them that regularly. There are so many other variables that can be controlled, sleep, diet, hydration that have more of an impact than which test we choose to perform.
TR is built around the “Everyday Cyclist”, not someone who has a lab to perform ramp tests is like the Sufferfest video showed.
We will soon find out! Apperaently GCNs J.Pow did a FTP test every day for a week. Actually super curious for that video 
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Last month I did 3 different types of tests - a 20 minute, a 60 min, and a Kolie protocol. Went from 220 FTP to 275 FTP with random training. 
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Must be all the carbs you’ve been eating!
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Partially. Just did a Kolie FTP rest couple days ago…rough! 
I’d consider that protocol a true FTP test, even more than a straight ramp test or some weird kitchen sink test. But most people don’t want to spend 75min (+ warm-up!) grinding out a test.
As has been said, there are no shortcuts. You get what you pay for.
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So the best FTP booster is FTP tests themselves?
I guess we’ll see how wasted J.Pow was and you can decide if that’s good training. 
Do you know if it was a different type of test each day or the same test repeated?
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I agree with you about Xert and CP modeling in general. If you have enough max efforts at varied durations, the modeled curve is pretty damn accurate. Most of the times spot on. The only time I have had any discrepencies is when doing long blocks of polarized with no max efforts of any kind. If you curve is set to 28 days, then it resets based on that block with no real efforts. Xert allows you to stop the degrading curve or modify the rate.
It’s called marketing, get over it man.
Every company that has a similar product has to differentiate theirs from the competition. I’ve been a TR and Sufferfest user for many years. I haven’t tried the Half Monty SUFF ramp test yet but I’m sure it’s easier than the 4DP test. The traditional FTP test is brutal and I don’t always pace well so I like a ramp test concept. In my experience, the TR Ramp Test produces a very similar FTP result as the traditional 20 minute FTP test. I’d have to go back and look at my past results to find the difference but it is close and I’m not completely destroyed after a ramp test.
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
Wasn’t it Oscar Wilde who said, “Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness”?
What podcast?
I gave this a shot this morning coming off of a pretty good training block (12, 15, 17hrs over 3 weeks respectively). Today is the 5th day of my rest week, and I normally do an FTP test every 4th or 5th day, so nothing new there.
Some things I noticed… The “black hole” section of the test something was most definitely off. I took the trainer (Kinetic Road Machine) out of Erg mode as suggested, but it felt I was spinning on air, as I had my cadence around 100rpm, in the hardest gear, but I still wasn’t getting anywhere. I kept my heart rate in the proper zone, but it just didn’t feel right… Another thing to note is that I didn’t make it as far as I have before in a Ramp test. The past few tests (which I do every 4 weeks) , have resulted in a max 1min power of around 420watts. This test, I didn’t get up past 350. It just felt harder than usual. Could be how I was feeling today, but I didn’t know why that was.
However, with those items being said, the most unfortunate thing out of the entire test is that Sufferfest doesn’t even recognize I did a test 
… Major bummer 
. My"4dp" results are still the exact same as they were when I entered my custom FTP
I sent a request to support, and am hoping to get a response soon… Based purely off my max 1min power, that would put my FTP to be 262 (I know, SF claims to not use only 75%, but I have nothing else to go on at this time.
The past few months, here’s been my FTP results:
Nov: Ramp test TR, 270w
Dec: Ramp test TR, 292w… 8min Zwift, 290w
Jan: Ramp test Zwift, 303w… 8min Zwift, 305w
Feb: Ramp test Zwift, 315w
March: Ramp test Zwift, 318w
So is my FTP now dropped down to 262 after a larger training block than normal? I suppose I will do a retest. Being the first time doing the half monty, my nerves were a little bit high (they always are when I do tests for the first time). It is claimed that typical ramp tests overestimate FTP, but I have never truly failed a workout with the FTPs listed above.
I still want to give SF the benefit of the doubt. I know this is a newly released feature, and I realize I may be the one to blame for any of these issues mentioned.
I also really appreciated the fact that it said my LTHR while in the test, something that is very valuable to me. I also appreciate that it gives more than just the FTP (well… if it ever gives me the results) because I find training more valuable when there are different points of measurement to see your progress. Not everyone agrees with me here. I train to a “single source of truth” – the FTP (or LTHR if on a bike w/o power meter), but it’s neat to see how other points move according to training.
I’ll update this post when I get a reply from them, and I would be happy to do another full test in a few days to get hopefully more accurate results. Really the weirdest thing to me was how difficult the ramp test felt, and then the fact that I was in the “hardest” gear during the “black hole” (heart rate only effort), but felt I was just spinning on air
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Interesting follow up video. Of course he’s an ex pro so he knows how to deal with this effort and what might work for him is not for everyone. But I like his take on the LTHR is quite interesting and seems fairly accurate.
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I just did the same.
However, I also did something VERY stupid. Which was use Kickr power for the Sufferfest test, and record my Stages PM onto my head unit so I could compare the two. Big mistake. The two power measures were so inconsistent (i.e. not just different readings, but the offset varied from 2-20 watts depending on intensity) that it was impossible to make any valid comparison between them. Never mind.
Going off my Stages power meter numbers, I had this too, though not the same extent. I finished at about 15 watts lower than I would expect to given a fairly educated guess as to my current FTP.
I did note that they started me off at “50% of your estimated MAP” (which turned out to 162 watts) and then the steps were 19-20 watts each minute. Whereas the TR test would start me at 140 and go up in 16-17 watt increments. So there’s clearly some methodology difference to be found here which might be why the final minute comes sooner.
My final minute power in Sufferfest (i.e. on the Kickr) was 367. After the 20 minute HR-controlled interval (which for me worked pretty smoothly with the Kickr in Level Mode), in which I exceeded the original suggested power target by about 12 watts, it gave me an FTP of 282. So 77% of my best 1min power, but who knows how the HR-controlled interval affected that.
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