Strength training - before or after trainer session?

Currently on week three of Stronglifts 5x5 and Sweet Spot base I - Low vol. I didn’t start Stronglifts super light and it is just about getting slightly difficult.

At the moment I’ve been doing the weights early in the day and TR in the evening. The turbo sessions have felt harder from the start and as both the plan and weight-training is going to get harder I’m wondering if a) I can keep both up, and b) if there is a better way around to do weights/TR.

Oh, and I definitely want to do both on the same day so I get proper recovery days…

Just to add, I’m prioritising strength training up until Christmas. Mainly as a challenge and a change, but would be nice to see some cycling gains - possibly in the sprint to 3 minute power range??

Chris, I just finished SSBLVI and realized I feel better with weight training and cycling for conditioning/enjoyment. I’m only 4 workouts back into Starting Strength and tried an above threshold workout today and I was fried. I’ll start Traditional Base LV next week with my 3x SS workouts and see how it goes.

I think you may need to dial intensity back for a while working through 5x5. Perhaps you can dial up bike intensity after a few weeks of growing accustomed to 5x5.

I have preferred in the past to do weights am and ride pm. I just don’t like getting heart rate up first thing in the day.

IIRC 5x5 starts with bar only. Any reason you started heavier? The barbell is very humbling. I’ve learned this many times as a hard head. :laughing:

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Also, perhaps trying a ramp test post 5x5 workout. If your latest ramp is without weight training you may be doing your training zones a disservice.

Cheers :beers:

This could be a mistake.

There’s a few threads on combining strength and also on 5x5, and cycling and how you schedule them will depend on your life and your priorities.

Good enough, is anything you can complete.

Ideal, would be lifting day 1 a.m. cycling day 2 midday. Then repeat as day 3, day 4.

The idea being you get the most gains from lifting with a longer recovery period as the signals for the body to adapt persist longer than from endurance work.

Too true! :sweat_smile:

From a recent podcast (# 280):

Standard recommendation is after, with ideally at least 4 hours between workouts.

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I’ve taken Chad’s advice from the podcasts. I do my trainer ride earlier in the day and then my strength training 8-14 hrs later depending on my day. He says to try and put as many hours as you can between the two on the same day.

I’m on SSLV base plan (3 sessions a week) and I do a full body workout three times a week. So this works well I find. The training days are longer and certainly by the end I’m tired, but the rest days are golden because they’re pure rest. Although sometimes I do throw in a recovery ride on Mondays, normally a rest day.

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According to a paper by Baar referenced over at Emperical Cycling; Ampk is the main signalling molecule resulting from endurance work, and helps drive the adaptations we seek. M-tor is the signalling molecule resulting from strength work, with similar effect helping drive the adaptations to strength work. Ampk rises after an endurance session and is pretty much gone after 3 hrs or so. Mtor is elevated for up to 18 hrs after a strength session. Amp K blocks the action of mtor. So ideally you would do your cycling workout first, wait at least 3 hrs before strength work, and then not return to endurance work for 18 hrs after your strength session.

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Coach Chad discussed on the podcast over a year ago. He mentioned a paper which has some great info and recommendations. I summarized it over on this thread:

And repeating the conclusion from my post:

  • high-intensity TrainerRoad workouts in the morning, and strength training in the evening
  • low-intensity / short-and-easy endurance / recovery TrainerRoad workouts can be done immediately before strength training (or do them in the morning to maintain morning/evening TR/strength schedule)

Life isn’t perfect, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do to get it done.

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Did an hour on TR earlier (2x20min sweetspot) so will see how the weights go. For some reason I find it much easier to get motivated to do the weights earlier but will see what works best.

I can’t imagine getting through one of the over / under workouts after doing anything else the same day, so think @bbarrera 's suggestion might be the way to go.

As to why I didn’t start super light on Stronglifts - I’ve done a fair bit of lifting over the years and was around the 65kg mark on squats for 8-10 reps. Therefore figured starting on 30kg and really concentrating on form would be OK. It was going to get hard at some point whatever…

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I’ve done some lifting a couple hours before cycling (life isn’t perfect and all). During the cycling my legs were fine. After? Thats another story :grimacing:

Then again.

Look, in two years of using pubmed it seems easy to find contradictory “science” so lets talk about the real world.

I’ve read that (some) track cyclists train mornings in the gym, afternoons on the track. Like here: https://www.cyclingweekly.com/fitness/training/how-to-train-like-a-sprinter-334002

So what do those coaches know that the “Using Molecular Biology to Maximize Concurrent Training” folks don’t know? :man_shrugging:

That’s a good question. Perhaps you should ask it of Kollie?

Good idea. Hope I didn’t miss the ask me anything deadline.

BTW, this McConell fellow seems to be on a bit of a mission to tear down some of the myths around AMPK.

Thanks for the references. It appears that the AMPk response is significantly attenuated by endurance training as per the first reference. In the paper they noted in passing that efforts at 80% of VO2 max still caused an increase in AMPk. So then maybe no hard interval sessions on your strength day. Personally after a hard strength workout, I find it takes me about 24 hr to recover enough to do anything meaningful in the bike. Nothing like getting old.

Moore has done two podcasts on strength training. I seem to recall them covering concurrent training.

My guess is that ideal spacing out of strength and endurance training is a marginal gain. Meaning that doing any strength training even if not under ideal circumstances is still a hundred times better than not doing any at all.

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I have started sweetspot base high volume 1 and want to do some weight training (leg n core). But couldn’t decide which days i should do and when. It would be great to get some advices from the ones who are doing ssb high volume plans.