Stick a Fork in Me I’m Done?

Glad it helped. It’s incredibly hard to be objective with your on training. I know all this stuff and still don’t do it that well for myself. Helps to have people to bounce your thoughts off of!

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Breath - thanks for sharing. Great perspective for measuring improvement outside FTP,

Long reply - sorry.
:grin:
I’ve done Base and build and never completed a speciality mainly because I’ve akways been sick so kept looping though base.
Feb 2019 I was down to 227 after an 11 week long chest infection that really did for me. I was at 268 before that. By Feb 2020 I’d got it back up to 259 and using plan builder took out a couple of events I was training for - that were cancelled.
So back to base and currently at 290 which is my highest ever and I’m re-testing again in a week or so.
I only do TR to keep fit and get better for club runs as I said I’m time poor. So I stick to low volume and weekends are either a Sunday club run of about 70 miles or playing out with the kids on the MTBs with the wife and getting in around 18 miles with loads of fun. I can do either after the Saturday workout in the LV plan but a hard club run is tougher and at 54 I don’t recover from two days like that straight away but I’m usually ready for the Tuesday workout. I’ve seen overall gains by being consistent with the training and true to myself. If I’m feeling too knackered to do a workout or we have a family thing I’ll shift it around. I was at one time doing a workout every other day to try something new but it was hard to keep on with.
I’m seeing results on the road - longer turns on the front, better sprints for signs, able to keep up with some of the faster lads and way better up hills.
As others have said sometimes you need to back off and after 5 weeks of load I’m ready for a rest week. Think I’ve done more base phases than anything.
I do LV as it means I can get out on the roads too if I want. I don’t modify them and can get through most rides though I have trouble with one workout that I’ll address. It takes some effort and a big dose of HTFU at times but biggest helpers for me are more cooling with a better fan and fuelling smartly for the workout. I used to do all my rides before breakfast and maybe use a gel or two for the longer ones. Now I’m willing to move them around until after meals for an easier ride.
A couple of weeks ago I did my Saturday session and a club ride on the Sunday which was a good pace and decent distance. . It did take some getting over that weekend… :grin:

You should be able to get through the workouts as they should be/are tailored to your FTP.

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Skip the third workout and instead go outside and noodle for 4-6 hours. A 1-hour workout simply isn’t going to have the same training benefit as a 50-100 mile ride if you’re already doing two of them every week.

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Thanks, I appreciate the detailed reply. You are living the dream. My dream in fact! This is the amount of work I wish I could do, but seem to come unraveled. At least I know it’s not an age thing now. Thanks for sharing keep up the good work. Best of luck in your training. You should think about racing. At 290 FTP in the 50 plus age group you would be a force.

I think that’s going to be my plan. I’ll do the VO2 Max work and the Saturday work out skipping whatever the Thursday workout targets.

@Nate_Pearson has proven that you don’t need to train long to go long, however if you are planning long rides, I think most would agree you need to expose yourself to that length of time in the saddle to work out nutrition on the bike, hydration and also see what effects it has on your body. You should try and replicate duration or near duration before an event or you may come undone. I think once you get past 3hours on the bike, based on my n=1, these things cone more into play. You have the power and fitness from the training but longer ride experiences help with prep and post ride feelings and recovery. If you think you could bash out say 1200kcals on a turbo session and then head out for 3500kcals of a long ride and it be as easy you’re wrong. If you only ever ride for a couple of hours you’re fine.
Long rides outside teach you loads but if you’re never going to do them…
:grin:
My first 70 miler a few years ago with some chums - I’d not experienced that distance before but was full of energy, threw myself at every hill, by mile 40 I was suffering. I finished but was in a real state for quite a few days. The weather was worse than expected as it rained for 68 of those miles and dropped to almost zero a couple of times. People were being taken off with hypothermia. It was type 2 fun - but it taught me loads. We’ve all been there, or worse.

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I think older athletes probably have more to gain by training longer. I certainly know that I do. I am 52 and I fully invested in TR about 3 years ago. Great initial gains then like the OP I have seen some diminishing returns. I think the 3+ hour rides bring on specific adaptations we cannot get any other ways. Certainly the likes of Joe Friel seem to think so. My own N+1 is that I get something out of them that I don’t get in TR. I would classify it as a sort of strength endurance although I can’t isolate justifying data in my case. I too have regressed on FTP this year and going back through my history I saw that I responded less and less to VO2 max sessions. So although I have done multiple build phases this year my HrTiZ for VO2max is a matter of minutes. Each year the TiZ has declined for VO2MAX. I wonder about that. I also think that I have the capacity to go longer on sweet spot than the plans allow. Although I tend to talk myself out of it as the TR plans limit the SS duration.

Not the same thing.

OP is not training for a distance event. He has plateaued in fitness on three interval days per week.

Nate trained for distance events by doing high volume TR plans.

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Not all TSS isn’t created equal. For example, I do a TR workout with sweetspot for 1 hour. TSS = 89 and I am plenty cooked! I went out for a 2 hour ride today and it was Long Slow Distance (LSD). TSS = 110. I feel great.

Team_Bunty was saying to shoot for 500-600 TSS. At 49, I can do 6 hours of LSD and get 400 TSS in one day. I do this occasionally to shock my body. But I won’t entertain doing 400 TSS with all sweetspot or my body would be screaming.

I am in your age category 50 this year. You didn’t really say, but if you are just starting back, it is going to suck for a 6-8 weeks or so until your body fully adapts. You’ve got muscles, ligaments and tendons that all need to condition themselves and they aren’t going to like it.

I started TR after several weeks of pretraining. I am not saying you need to pretraining to do TR (I just happened to). But I still found I needed to swap out the 1.5 hour sweetspot for a longer LSD ride instead for the first several weeks (cause the idea of 1.5 of sweetspot was way too much on m y body to start off). As my body adapted after about 8 weeks, I brought more and more of the original TR program back to the 1.5 hour weekend ride with more intervals, etc.

Point is it doesn’t have to be perfect. Sometimes its just getting your butt on the saddle.

You still haven’t said what plan you’re doing. Did you go low, med or high volume?

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Similar emotions over here too. My first foray into structured training and have seen negligible FTP improvement. Trained other aspects of fitness which is of course good but being newish to riding and fresh to structure am disappointed with literally no improvement in FTP. So taking advantage of the good weather, razzing around chasing avg speed and enjoying my bike. Will pick structure back up when the weather turns.

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Agreed - i fell down a rabbit hole with that one following on from other suggestions.

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Is the fast after 50 book worth getting?

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I think it’s good if a little general. The references though are excellent. It has a pretty good trawl of the current literature. There were some good insights on planning and nutrition changes for older athletes. Nothing really stunning but then all the best insights are ones where you are left thinking: I should have worked that out myself.

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That is LSD?
400 TSS from 6 hours is 82%, that is close to my flat out for 6 hour. Impressed.

LSD is Long Slow Distrance.

I was thinking the same though. If you get 400TSS from 6hr LSD your FTP setting used to calculate TSS is probably wrong, or it’s not an LSD ride.

Firmly mid tempo.

That was a polite way to call out BS. And In a way you’re right. There is an issue where one of my power meters is reporting higher than the other.

But here is the ride…

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It’s also a ~8.5 hour ride so that would help you ride at a higher power. So this on it’s own might not be an indication that your FTP is off. Obviously a different PM could lead to the higher power also.

that part of Vancouver BC is relatively flat and possibly windy, right?