SSB II is killing me

A Zwift race here I come, then. Let the cheaters spur me on!

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So much good info in here, thanks everyone.

More background.
It’s my first go at TR but I’m not bran new to training. It’s my 2nd year with an indoor trainer. I did ftp tests and a couple workout programs with zwift last season.

I’m doing the low volume plan. During SSB1LV I added a few outdoor rides during the week because the weather permitted. It’s too cold and wet now so I’m just trying to do the 3 scheduled indoor sessions each week.

Takeaways so far:
-maybe I need to eat better
-maybe I need to rest better
-maybe ftp from ramp test is inflated

Suppose I eat, sleep, rest better and that gets me through without adjusting ftp… how does the builder and specialty phases stack up? Am I in for constant suffering lol?? :joy:

If you are new to trainerroad I think you need to go through these growing pains for a bit. Base 2 and build will introduce you to workouts that are beyond your current base capabilities but you will continue to develop that base regardless of what your ftp does which will make these easier.

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I’m in my second base program with TR, first one was early in 2019. I had done lots of trainer work before, lots of structured training in running, but no real structured program on the trainer. Three remarks from that experience which may apply to your case:

  1. There’s a learning curve in handling sweet-spot and threshold workouts. It took me some time to develop the mental attitude (endurance?) to handle those long and painful intervals.

  2. The ramp test is one way of estimating FTP. Emphasis on “one” and “estimating”. As with any other such test, it works for most people, but not for all. Some find it’s really good for them, some find it over-estimates their FTP, some find it under-estimates it. I’m in the second group. But what’s certain is that long threshold intervals are a pretty good indicator of the precision of your FTP estimate, regardless of how you got to that number. Don’t hesitate to change the FTP number outside of testing.

  3. SSB2 brings in VO2Max workouts. The level of these intervals is based on a VO2Max = 120% of FTP estimation. As Coach Chad indicates repeatedly, you may find this 120% to be ok, too low, or too high for your case. Don’t hesitate to change the intensity until you find the level that allows you to finish the intervals, but just barely so.

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I have found myself in a very similar situation. After doing a lot of reading on this forum and checking out other training resources, I came to the conclusion that I just did not have an adequately developed aerobic system. Until this year I only rode MTB on singletrack - started in 2017 at the age of 49.

While I don’t have a large power level at all, what I did have was more tuned to more vo2 type efforts and thus tested “relatively” high on the ramp tests. This fall I started my own version of a polarized endurance type training plan. Large improvement in comfort on the bike, especially with longer rides. Lower heart rate, meaningful weight loss, and just a much more improved general well being.

All this being said, I would think a lot of us newer to this sport just don’t have the aerobic capacity that is truly needed to complete the workouts in the second phase of SSB and beyond at an exertion feeling level intended for and experienced by better trained folks. It’s my opinion so you know what that’s worth, but in my experience, I would recommend a longer term focus on building up your aerobic capacity. Sprinkle in some intensity along the way, but put more focus on the base. That’s what I am going to do which is relatively easy as I don’t have huge plans to race, and even though I do plan on doing some MTB racing this year, improved aerobic capacity is more important and will give much more satisfaction from riding than race results …

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Try this. I’m in the same boat. Ramp test overestimates my FTP, and as a result, the TR workouts are all a little too hard. SS becomes threshold, and Threshold pushes me to VO2max. 1-2 min VO2 max intervals are doable, but the 3 min intervals are brutal.

Also check out this post about the approach recommended by Steve Neal - basically advocates for putting a cap on workout intensity based on HR. I think there’s merit to this for older athletes.

Umm… no*

*ok, yes. What you can’t overlook and this is critical in my opinion. You’ll learn to suffer. That in turn makes you a tougher rider. As a very famous cyclist once said, ‘it never gets easier, you just get faster’.

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I did SSB HV 1 np. Low carb. SSB HV2 I died in week 4. Ate carbs (racing weight program), no more diet and changed the last 2 weeks to SSB MV2 with some programming of my own or zwift in between. All fine now. To much 2 hour workouts is just killing imo. Also carbs added a lot to my performance.

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Also in 3rd season, I find similar problems in long o/u. Carp peak +2 is just massive step up going to 16 mins o/u from I think nothing more than 8 min previously. This year finished for first time but only with 3-5% reduction and a couple backpedals in latter sets. But longer work staying just below threshold or with short break eg Mary Austin -1, has been doable.

Point is even with multiple passes through ssb, it seems like it can still highlight very specific weak spots after you get past the eating, sleep, long term conditioning after multiple seasons indoors and mental improvements that are all great advice above.

My first season felt like what op describes - after the carp peak fail, I used improving weather as an excuse to ride outside more and abandon structure that I couldn’t do with a ftp that I now realize in hindsight was set a few watts too high. Don’t give up like that… Drop ftp targets to make most of them doable, and know it’s ok if a few still aren’t 100% doable - they will tell you exactly where you still need work. My ftp has been flat for a couple years, but after better plan compliance, I can hold and repeat power near it so much better now. That’s more useful than gaining a few more watts on a 5 min segment and being done for the day!

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:arrow_up: :arrow_up: :arrow_up: This …

Exactly my experience all well so far - 1 week left of SSB LV2 and only now starting to get my head around the longer high level SS intervals

Just tweak the intensity as needed to complete the entire workout - you’ll still get benefit and also a bonus is the psychological boost of having ‘completed’ the workout :smile:

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Just lower FTP by 10 and go through them. Some of the hardest workouts are in SSB2

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This is my second year with TR. Last year, I think SSBMVII broke me mentally a bit. I started picking and choosing and kind of creating my own thing after it when it was build time, but of course that also corresponded with outdoor season picking up. I really didn’t see any improvement over the prior year, which was mostly outdoor rides with hill climbs, and zwift racing. This year I’m doing LV + more recovery zone rides (rather than endurance) hoping to be fresher. When I went into SSBILV, I thought I tested particularly low, but took the number, and completed no problem. On retest for SSBIILV, I went up 18 watts (to what was my “usual” in-form FTP) but again found it was beating me down, so I’ve knocked it down to roughly half the gain, and it’s somewhat better, though judging by my performance on Disaster, I’m still lacking on repeatability and > 115% efforts.

I think failing workouts has been really bad for me mentally. I never used to bail at all, but sometimes I’ve found myself bailing now before HR goes red-zone. I even bailed on an outdoor hill climb this summer, something I’ve never done before in my life.

So I may knock it back even a little more, to have more “success” and rebuild mental toughness.

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Like you have stated - workouts durinf SSB II LV are way harder but they mostly rely on mental aspect (especially during 4-5th week). But what I found fascinating that when your mind tells you to stop and you overcome this urge some of the workouts become “easier” or at least not much harder. I had two workouts when my mind was telling me to stop, my HR was raised and my whole body was signaling that I will not be able to finish - but for me this is the normal part of any physical activity and the moment when the magic happens. Without truly pushing your body you there is no progress in your fitness.

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I’m in my second season where I failed ssbmv2 with a jump from 230w to 235w on completion of mv2.

This year I took the approach of ssblv with extending the rides with + versions where I had the time and felt fresh as well as outside rides at the weekend. This saw a jump from 225w to 250w.
During lv2 I’ve failed a couple of the Saturday workouts and dropped down to 245w to finish the program. I’m interested to see the results, I don’t think I’ll see any ftp gain personally as it was too brutal to add in additional volume.
I’m excited to see what build brings as it finishes just before a cycling holiday

I’ve been using TR for about 6 years. I’ve learned a lot about what NOT to do.

I think it’s wise to NOT raise your FTP between SSB 1 and SSB 2. If you do, just do 1 or 2 %, but at that point, what’s the point??

Regarding VO2max…adjust down or up if needed…to finish the intervals. Shouldn’t need to adjust down the 1 or 2 minute jobs, but the 3 min ones, don’t feel bad about dialing down even up to 5%.

Don’t adjust the sweet spot intervals. If you need to, your recovery, fuel, or FTP is off ( or a combo of the 3).

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Carpathian Peak +2 took my soul and stepped on its face this week. Three weeks into SSB2MV and I’m in a hurt locker… week 5 is gonna be a bear. :scream:

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What were the outcomes that you had that make you suggest no increasing between the two? Do you test between the two base phases? I’m just starting TR but have been mountain bike riding 3 times a week or so for lots of years, just for fitness and group riding fun not racing. SSLVBase1 was super easy really, even Palisade. Kaweah, was a bit more difficult yesterday, but I’m going to chalk that up to too much holiday cheer this week. I’m definitely seeing some workouts in SSB 2 that have me intrigued since I don’t ride VO2Max style very much. Lots of long grinder uphills in our neck of the woods.

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So I just progressed to Sustained Power Build from SSBMV2. I had a big jump in FTP and the first week has crushed me pretty bad. The Tuesday V02 workout was the instigator that set me up for destruction/failure. I dialled back the subsequent workouts in order to make it through them and keep excellent form.

Lesson for me is adjust accordingly to keep good form and make the end of the sets. Failing isn’t a bad thing but you want to be on the cusp of failing I feel for sustained build. For SSB you probably want to be completing the workouts even a little easier.

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Your on the same plan as me. Tomorrow I start and I’m super pumped for it. And I can’t wait for my ramp test tomorrow.

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There is a really chance I’m approaching TR and the workouts incorrectly but I honestly believe that SSB 1 is the Taster and SSB 2 is where Coach Chad discovers what he and you are working with. SSB 2 brings a lot of riders back to earth with a bump. If you open your mind and accept it as a learning curve, you can isolate your weaknesses.

Personally I’m not a fan of people saying they failed. Did you give the workout 100%? If so, you’ve learnt something valuable and that is success. Next time you face a similar session, you can with prior knowledge, tweak how you approach the session.

Failure is not even trying.

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