So much for Pros doing polarized

Team Ineos Training

:hugs:What do you mean? They’re not just doing those sessions. To ride pro level training weeks durations they need to ride polarized.

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Keen to hear their definition of threshold if they’re doing 3x50mins with 10min breaks. (yes I see they note it isn’t SS)

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You just linked to a page with a bunch of popular sessions. The sessions themselves isn’t what defines polarised, but rather the balance between different zones :slight_smile:

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“Key Sessions” are the 5-10%. The 95% is the 100 miles per day they are riding at low intensity.

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It’s probably the typical definition, except they can probably hold it for 70-85 minutes. Note that they get a continuous 10 minutes of recovery, which is a lot for a world tour GC contender. Part of what makes these riders special is how crazy well developed the right side of their FTP curve is. They can go crazy long TTE when below FTP. That also means they recover from hard efforts really fast and don’t have to drop much below FTP to do so.

Essentially, what makes them suited to what they do is they can ride just below threshold for hours on end, go above threshold for key moments, then drop right back just below threshold again to make that attack stick. There’s several threads here looking at WVA, MVDP, etc power files from races and this is exactly what they do. It’s not just high FTP, it’s insane TTE that makes them special.

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Sounds like you’re telling me I won’t be pro any time soon, this is disappointing. Oh well…

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He has to mean the physiological definition of that point where you reach a certain accumulation of lactate, or something similar. If he were using maximum power for an hour, that workout by definition wouldn’t work.

*Pyramidal, as seiler has noted for pro cyclists from the beginning

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Looks like a typical week for me. Meh :stuck_out_tongue:

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Correct me if i’m wrong because I don’t get too into this type of stuff, but as I understand it there isn’t really a strict definition of FTP in a physiological sense. I imagine 5 watts either way would make a big difference with this sort of workout.

Assuming the standard 45-90min TTE, and that most pros are probably on the long end, 150 minutes might be possible given their training/recovery capabilities, enough nutrition and sleep, and a conservatively set FTP. (all of which pro riders tend to do a lot better than amateurs.)

Can’t say I’m particularly inclined to test it out myself, but then again I don’t have a grand tour to win. :sweat_smile:

I don’t understand how you can make any assessment on what their training program looks like from an article that only lists 5 “key sessions” (i.e. workouts) without knowing what a full week or training block looks like.

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I find this definition a little dumb… By definition threshold is you can hold for 60 minutes, and if they can hold for 50x3, they can probably hold higher power for 60 minutes…
But what do I know… I’m not a pro

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Threshold is not by definition what you can hold for 60 minutes, that’s a myth.

My coach works cadence work in like this. I really enjoy it and feel much faster / better than I did when I just did erg mode and kept it in a smaller rpm window. Learning power control at 60rpm and 95rpm has been really beneficial.

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Folks, the power curve is not a measure of what power you can do for X amount of time across an entire workout. It’s an estimate of how long you can hold a certain power for one continuous chunk of time in a part of your workout, until you need to back off.

Once you back off below threshold, you are recharging the batteries and can eventually hit a similar effort again, even though you haven’t stopped putting out power. How far below FTP you dip affects how quickly you recharge your batteries.

Think about it, we all have experience with this. Do an all out 10 second sprint, then ride easy for 10 minutes and you can do an equal all out 10 second sprint. Depending on how fit you are, some people can do this 5 times, some people can do it 50 times. Either way, it’s the same principle.

Now let’s say that your best effort for that 10 seconds is 200% FTP. If you can do that 5 times would you claim that you can hold 200% for 10x5 = 50 seconds? No! You can only hold it for 10. Just because you did that 5 times in a workout means nothing for your power curve or FTP. BUT being able to do it 50 times does mean your fitter than if you can only do it 5 times. This doesn’t show up on your power curve, but it does reflect your “durability” our ability to go hard and recover.

So again, the 10 minutes recovery between each 50 minutes threshold is really key here. No, most normal people can’t do that, but many can do three sets of 30 minutes with 10 minutes recovery. Does that mean they have a 90 minute TTE or wrong FTP? No! You can’t add up separate intervals and say it’s the same as one long interval!

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Hi hoffman,
I’m interesting in why training with different cadence.
I even get good feedback in similar training plan (same power zone with high or low cadence).

So very interesting in what’s purpose for different cadence in learning power control?
And how to learn? works at 85-92% FTP (for example in specific range) with 60 and 95 rpm?

many thanks

Most coaches use low cadence with sweet spot/FTP because a lower cadence can make the stimulus of muscular endurance better, as it puts more strain on the muscles. High cadence is for when you really want to increase someone’s breathing, aka vo2 max intervals. A fast spin at the start of a vo2 interval can give you more time near your vo2 max, instead of waiting for the breathing to come up.

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It’s how to strategize / attack terrain. High cadence is for accelerations, medium-ish cadence is for holding power, there are some physio / endurance benefits for low cadence, but sometimes you just need to know how to use it to slog up and survive climbs or dig out if a pit.

Look at the cadence of any pro, it’s not a steady 85-95rpm the entire Stage.

I’ll do things like 6 minute threshold drills, 1 minute at 85-90rpm, 1 minute 55-65rpm.

Or 20 seconds at VO2 max at 60 rpm, 40 seconds at sweet spotish at 85rpm. Stuff like that. Watch Egan’s attack the other day where he threw it into the big ring and ripped.

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very thanks!
Gain much from this kind of share!
I think before make plan, I need to understand what’s relationship between cadence and power for me.
For investigate the interaction between different cadence and power zone, dose any test can suggest?

I don’t think there is really a test, other than just collecting a big data set. Everyone has their preferred cadences.

I think one has to remember, there is the engine (you the rider and your fitness) and then there is the operation / weaponizing (in a sporting sense) the vehicle (the bike), the latter is where the cadence stuff is more important.

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