no discussion, PM all the life
a PM is at the base of training
a smart trainer is just an extra
Ha! No, not fast enough by a long margin. And I’m not getting any younger…
+1 For trainer, unless you do most of your training outdoors. I spend more time on the trainer than I do outdoors, mostly because of convenience and weather. However, I think DCR’s recommendation for a cheaper new or used PM and trainer may be the best way to go. With end of year and holidays coming up, should be able to find deals.
I bought a Kickr Snap ($500) first then a Quarq PM ($1100) the next year. I’d never want to be without Erg mode, but a PM I could live without. That being said, I ride MTB where power is only useful in post when racing.
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Depends on if you think you’ll need/use power for pacing outdoors.
The more you ride, the more you’ll be able to rely on RPE for pacing outdoors, and you may not need a power meter for that purpose.
I don’t have a power meter on my bikes, but do have a smart trainer, and that’s the right answer for me.
I’m not sure if anyone has mentioned this in the thread above, but another benefit of a smart trainer is being able to watch TV while training indoors and not have to stare at the TR screen all the time to make sure you are hitting power targets. Erg mode takes care of that for you.
Or maybe do as dcrainmaker suggests and go with a cheaper wheel on smart trainer, and older PM, and get both.
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I got an older model Tacx Neo last year at a good price and put on a single sided power meter later in the spring so I have numbers outside. Hands down the smart trainer was the single best investment I have ever made in triathlon. Holy crap. Its so convenient and I can turn my brain off and watch TV/listen to music.
The power meter is a race only device and I have trained and raced enough to generally know what power I am pushing. I would 100% say get a good smart trainer and a cheap power meter later if you can afford it. I know the power meter can allow you to train indoors and outdoors but the smart trainer makes the indoor training enjoyable IMO. If you can get a cheap single sided PM in the spring then thats what I would do. I am also a little bitch so having ERG is very nice. It forces me to match the power.
If I had to buy a Neo again I would in a heartbeat. Upgrading the power meter? No reason to do that.
I just picked up a direct drive trainer, prior to that I was using my power meter and a Cycleops Fluid2.
My opinion, hands down 100% no question about it, power meter all day if you can only do one.
The power meter is literally a game changer, ERG mode (which is all you’ll be missing if you have a power meter and a regular trainer) is something of a novelty and doesn’t really change how you train.
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FWIW I’m in the US. I did a ramp test this past May using virtual power and my FTP was 290, but that’s probably higher than it actually is. My weight for the time being it 215lbs with an end of winter goal of 199lbs. I have no idea what my sprint power is, I’m not a racer and almost never sprint.
My budget is $600 to $800. I am limited on power meter options as I am a speed play pedal user and ride a C-Dale Synapse with a proprietary C-Dale crankset. I have narrowed power meter options down to either a Power2Max NGeco or a new rear wheel with a PowerTap G3 hub. I’m looking at a minimum of $600 for either of those two options. As far as direct drive smart trainers go I was looking at the CycleOps Hammer or Hammer 2.
Beat me to it! Exactly what I’d suggest - Can easily have both for under $1K.
If you’re talking about doing long endurance climbs outside, a PM is awesome for pacing, as well as being able to do as much outdoor structure as you want. And it can control the inexpensive smart trainer so there is no wondering about power offsets, etc.
ERG mode is great too - it definitely frees you up a lot - so that “smart” functionality is well worth having. But people go on about flywheel weight and road feel… it’s 12 lbs for a direct drive core vs. 10.5 lbs for a kick snap wheel on. I really don’t see why people get so wrapped up in it. Get an old beater rim/tire and the tire wear excuse is gone too. On top of that, read all the threads with people complaining that their wheel on trainer has so much inertia in the big ring that it feels great but doesn’t do a good job helping them climb, or doesn’t respond quickly to short high power intervals, so then they end up using small front ring regularly.
I think you’ll be equally miserable riding indoors with a SNAP or direct drive - and the PM will let you take it outdoors as much as your local conditions and time allow 
My current trainer is an Elite Qubo Fluid which is on the lower end of wheel-on trainers.
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Power meter without question. You will have consistency in training throughout the year indoors or outdoors. Being able to export TrainerRoad training sessions to a head unit for outdoor sessions makes this decision even easier.
Smart trainer. ERG mode is great for commiting to intervals, I don’t find that I can do most of the workout intervals uninterrupted outdoors due to road conditions and having to stop anyway.
Also, YMMV but I got a used stages PM for $300 and you can find a Hammer trainer for around $699, so you may be able to swing both financially. PM is nice to have, but I would never go back to a dumb trainer again, whether I had a PM or not, because the quality of an uninterrupted indoor workout IMO cannot be beat
“The usual” 
I have gotten much more of a training effect out of my smart trainer than my power meter. In fact, when the power meter broke I did not replace it. Due to the topography in my area, consistent wattage is impossible to maintain, so trying to do any kind of structured workout was super frustrating. On group rides I found that I never looked at the power meter until the ride was over. I either could keep up or I couldn’t. With the smart trainer I have idiot proof training. Select a workout and turn on the TV. When the workout is over I know I have done exactly what I was supposed to do.
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I’d get the power meter, for the reasons that you can then track all your training once you start riding outside! So valuable!
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For this N=1, it is a simple calculation; where do you intend to spend the majority of your time? I train indoors, 6 days a week, for 90% of the year. I have a TACX Neo (mostly love it) and the Vector Pedals. I find myself reacting to my outdoor power-meter training as…“Oh, that is interesting.” Conversely, focused training has allowed me to set multiple PR’s in my A race (over a 12 -year time span). When I race, my entire objective is to see how fast I can go - with the least amount of Watts expended. When I train, my objective is to hold Dr. Chad for as long as I can before capitulation.
Best of luck -
MC2
I’m in the “both, but smart trainer first” group. For me, it’s a simple matter of efficiency: I live in a very hilly area, so 90 minutes outdoors means 45 minutes of coasting. 1 hour of Sweet Spot intervals (or anything) in ERG mode gives me a more thorough workout. That, and I don’t have to think about the Seattle weather.
FWIW, I train for the annual Death Ride, to keep up with the club on the rides around Mt. Rainier, and just to stay in shape. I use the PM primarily to pace myself on hill repeats, since I’m new to structured training and tend to go out too hard.
Power meter. Something you will use on your bike on outdoor rides/ events too. I used the cheapest Elite trainer (£90) along with a power meter for ages and was great. Now have a smart trainer as old trainer broke. Ability to do ERG etc is ok but id absolutely go power meter first.
Have both, if I was to lose one it would be the power meter… If my Quarq power meter broke, I’d save up and get another one in time… If my direct drive smart trainer broke, I’d go out tomorrow and purchase a new hammer on a credit card. Guess that says it all for me in what I value, but everyone is different.
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I decided to get the direct drive trainer. Ordered a Wahoo Kickr Core this weekend.
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I’ve been using virtual power with a Kinetic Rock-n-Roll + dedicated trainer bike for 6 years now. It has been working for me and I have seen improvements in fitness. But I’ve been considering making things a little more accurate and possibly upping my game a bit.
I try my best to make sure that I always use the same settings from session to session but worry that there is some inaccuracy that could be hurting my progress. I try to control for tire pressure and pressure of the resistance unit on the wheel as best I can but I know that there is always some difference from workout to workout. I’m also using Bluetooth connections and there is that BT lag with virtual power. My VO2 max workouts always record low, but I’m not sure if that is me wimping out or the tech that I’m using.
My options are:
- Staying with the “dumb trainer” and purchasing two power meters. I’m most likely going to get Power2Max meters. One for my dedicated trainer bike and one for my gravel/cross/road bike.
I like this idea because it is the cheapest option, I like the challenge of hitting and holding power targets on my indoor workouts, and having the same PM means that I can use my indoor FTP when riding outdoors.
Using a crank based PM will give me accurate numbers from workout to workout. I also like how the P2M meters automatically calibrate. This is one less step I need to do before do my workouts where I’m already time crunched before work. I’m pushing it as it is and barely making it to work on-time most days as it is and adding an extra step to calibrate before/during every workout is just an added annoyance for me.
My only real reservation is that the PM that I purchase for my dedicated trainer bike wouldn’t be able to be used with any of my other bikes if for some reason that bike bit the dust.
- Purchasing a smart trainer and getting a P2M meter for my cross/gravel/road bike. I’m leaning towards a Kickr Core or Tacx Neo 2/2T as of now but could be swayed to get whatever the majority recommends.
I like this idea for the addition of erg mode. I’d have to hit my numbers especially on VO2 workouts where I typically underperform. It would force me to up my game. It’s also not too much more expensive than option one when I factor in the discount I get at my bike shop. I can also use it with more than one bike if for some reason my dedicated trainer bike dies. Both trainers also don’t require daily calibration. Wahoo recommends every two week, although I’d most likely do it every Saturday when I have time, and the Neo never needs it.
Drawbacks. 1. Not sure if my indoor FTP can be used outdoors because of the differences in the way the two PMs would be recording. 2. My issues with VO2 max workouts and I worry that I will have the spiral of death because of low cadence but I have a feeling that this is pretty much a non issue as most people use erg mode when doing VO2 max workouts. 3. Durability is my last concern. I want something that can last with routine maintenance.
I need help in deciding. I’m beginning to think that neither option is better and right now I’m leaning towards one but a good argument could lean me the other way.