I don’t think anybody is assuming people are aggressive because of their race. They’re saying people are aggressive because there are countless videos showing they are aggressive.
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So this looks at the community response, not the incident itself. You need to separate the incident from the response.
Not talking about it doesn’t fix it. The problem is with us a a cycling community and this is absolutely the place to discuss ( unless tr staff decides otherwise of course) what we are doing wrong.
Anyone sick of hearing about race is exactly the person who needs to keep hearing about race.
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That’s naive.
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Hearing about race when racist actions or words don’t exist is counterproductive to your intent.
YOU are assuming this about the other people. What does this say about you? How do you know the other people assume black people are more aggressive?
These people are simply talking about the event itself, and people are bringing race into it?
Huh? this is a forum and I am responding to a post another forum user made. Not sure what I need to separate? I specifically addressed that post.
As I said previously, talk about racism when it happens. Don’t make every event about race. Big difference.
In fact, this ENTIRE conversation has gone so far off topic and thats my exact point. We are discussing racism in bike racing when there is not ONE shred of evidence that racism exists in this case. If every time a black person is involved in a negative way we bring up racism it does nothing to help anyone, including other black people.
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I looked at it as a whole event type thing not just the in race part. But reading through some stuff again I can see it just being about during the race.
Not sure I’d go to fully say they are playing the victim card but can see the hypocrisy.
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Good job skirting the issue.
Exists: Personal instagram videos and YouTube videos glorifying putting people in gutters and head butting people. Video of them in a post race altercation throwing punches.
Commenters in this thread: “I don’t like this aggressiveness in bike racing.”
You: “You’re racist for saying they’re aggressive because they’re black.”
I think your comments say more about your views than others. Again, projection much?
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It means I don’t have my blinders on and fingers in my ear, and not afraid to admit there are problems in my sport.
The reason I suggested you separate the incident from the response is because your reply to someone suggesting that WE as a community might have a race problem was well Williams or Hernandez didn’t say it was about race. That wasn’t the point of the person you quoted when they brought up race. The race issue came after, from us.
Also did you just say it’s a forum I can discuss what I want while simultaneously telling everyone else to stop discussing something you don’t want to talk about?
This is your takeaway? If you understand my comments as me telling people what they’re actually allowed to talk about Vs what SHOULD be talked about, then I don’t know what to say.
Ignoring for a moment that making up fake quotes is pathetic…
There are people who have no idea who Williams or Hernandez are, who have no idea what legion is or even crit racing that may have come across a story this weekend about a fight after a race. Early reporting of just Hernandez being interviewed was that Williams caused the race incident and that he threw the first punch.
While the second part is true how we get to the punch changes as the day goes on. Punch never should have been thrown to be clear. But that initial reporting is damaging and will bring out people’s pre conceived notions about certain races. We can’t pretend they don’t exist.
I work in the auto industry, a very sexist and racist industry unfortunately. I share a building with a truck/jeep shop and I do European cars. Near 0% of the customers nextdoor are of color. Near 50% of mine are, also high female customer base too but no point in going off topic on off topic. Through the thin walls I hear all sorts of " I’m not racist but… that last incident he had it coming" " if they only did this and werent aggressive with the cop"… these types of thoughts aren’t limited to police shootings etc, they can and do happen in how people interpret things as simple as an incident after a bike race.
I’m responding to the race part of the discussion to suggest we do better as a community discussing events and especially how the cycling news reports.
Absolutely the Williams brothers ride aggressive and post videos about it. Most people have no idea about that. That’s entirely separate from the fact that people are racist and we can’t pretend that the cycling community doesn’t have any.
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No my takeaway is that you misunderstood someone’s comment, went off on your own tangent, then suggested that people not discuss it after you made your statements. That had you followed what the person you quoted actually was saying in your response you’d understand why some elements of race are relevant to this thread.
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Sure thing friend.
Just another reminder to keep on topic and follow the forum guidelines (1, 2 & 3 specifically), please.
1. Be excellent to each other
2. Challenge the idea, don’t attack the person
3. Contribute Constructively
4. Don’t break the law
5. Keep it tidy
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Framing everything through the lens of racism is counter-productive, naïve and belittles individuals.
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@kurt.braeckel sorry brother, you deleted your post, now mine looks a little out of context
I’m not though, I responded to a comment made earlier that we MUST discuss race regarding this event. I acknowledged that nobody involved is making the accusation directly
All that said, I agree with you that there are racist people in the cycling world. And they aren’t just white. They are all races.
I think for the healing of everyone, we need to stop looking for racism where it may not exist.
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No one is doing that. People are suggesting we pretend color doesn’t exist. Race was not a factor in al parts of this but it’s pretty apparent in this thread that it is in some ways involved. Ignoring that since people are uncomfortable is also counterproductive naive and belittles individuals.
It doesn’t have to be the conversation but it still needs to be a part of it.
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I deleted it because I’m opting not to wade back in here. Didn’t get to it fast enough. 
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Problem with this statement… When a tour guy turn violent against another tour rider OR the public, there is not the same calls for him to be suspended or calling them aggressive.
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Smart man. It’s getting pretty deep in here
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Honestly just because someone in this thread, not sure who or where brings it up doesn’t mean that it needs to be discussed in regards to this incident. It just distracts from the discussion of the physical nature of crit racing and how people conduct themselves after a race when they may have an be issue with said physicality. Now had anyone actually involved in that incident even brought up that racism was involved in THIS incident I would agree that it should be discussed in this thread. But that hasn’t happened So if we can’t stay on topic I would suggest @mcneese.chad close this thread or start a different thread on the topic of racism in Crit racing.
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For clarity, I am keeping my involvement with these types of ‘hot topics’ to a minimum, like the reminders in the few posts I’ve made.
I am leaving them to Ivy and other TR reps to handle. I feel these are best handled by official TR people.
As a reminder, forum members can and should use the flagging tools in the forum for any post they see as problematic and not following the forum rules. This presents it for review and will be addressed by Ivy or others. It’s better to do this than take on the ‘keyboard warrior’ approach that we see a bit too often.
People need to look at their own activity here too, and I suggest taking a bit more time before responding to make sure they are following the forum guidelines.
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