These are also great reasons for higher fuel intake rates even with low absolute average wattages. Humans become much less efficient and producing energy when there is high stochasticity to the energy burn. (High NP to AP difference). Some of this is sort of assumed in the algorithms right now. In the future, once we’re synced with TrainingPeaks, which we’re coding now, we’ll have even more accurate prescriptions, but it sounds like the app nailed your prescription for this ride.
It sounds like our next major feature, besides TrainingPeaks sync, is also going to be a major problem-solver for you:
Bottle filling & fuel consumption strategies with various options for concentration/fresh water splitting etc, plus detailed “do this, then that,” kitchen instructions with pictures Goal: no more confusion and better execution with ease.
In the future, sensor tech in bottles will be neat
I did a little searching for the kind of fuel-flow transducer I’ve used before in aviation, and I found one or two products that cost a couple hundred bucks. But the cost was not the deal-breaker, rather what I see is the problem is that those products are designed to measure constant flows in gallons per hour. I would guess they will have problems measuring very low flow, and intermittent flow at that.
I also searched for some “low flow water meters” using various searches. Here are a couple examples of what I found:
At flows.com, this digital water meter looks great but the lowest possible flow it’ll measure is .087gpm (0.33 l/min). At one liter per hour, I’m drinking .017 l/min… barely 1/20th of that!
Also at flows.com, this other “digital low flow meter” handles flows as low as 0.48gpm, 5.5X greater than the other. It only costs $45… but too high a flow.
Lots of other examples like that.
I did find ONE product that looks fantastic for what we want: the Keyence Clamp-On Micro Flow Sensor, which does not come into contact with the liquid at all, and can handle constant or intermittent flow (or “shots” of delivery) down to 0.1 ml/min (roughly 2.2 liters per year). But no indication of pricing on the web page. Have to call/email to get a quote.
Let me know if you want to follow up on this further AND would like me to stay involved. No need… feel free to run with it on your own.
Last water flow meter in the market. Apparently rubbish, though.
If you search it up, you’ll see lots of these (larger) for home or commercial hosepipes, some smart ones, and I’m sure auto/aero? parts, too. I think someone who knows their way around these parts or can hire an engineer would be able to figure it out. For Camelbak, maybe it was a small project with limited resources.
If you’re offering, I’d love to know the price on that Keyence thing. If not, no worries!
@greenbike may also be right that the easiest thing to do would be to have a fullness sensor of some kind in the container itself. It just needs to be more reliable and accurate than my RV tank sensors.
It’s not a great idea for me to ask them for pricing, since I wouldn’t be the eventual buyer… better to have them connect with the right person (you) from the start. What I meant to say was that this is as far as my own curiosity will take me right now, and the opportunity to do something with it is all yours… but if you end up pursuing this, and you decide that you might want me to get involved later on, I’m open to having that conversation.
It may not be relevant to you at all, of course. But since my forte is governance in closely-held businesses, typically family-owned and -operated, I’m sometimes asked to sit on Boards or to advise on strategy/growth. I’m used to being explicit about “I might be interested this if you want me involved” or “this is not my thing at all, have fun” in situations like this. Better to be open and transparent in general… sorry if it wasn’t clear.
I smell what you’re cooking. I was picking up on that you might have some skills and thought I’d make a play at having someone so skilled do some legwork.
Transparency is always good and appreciated. Zero apologies needed.
That’s strange… I just reviewed the app on Google Play - and no reviews or star ratings are visible at all. I can see mine but no others (and if I open an incognito tab I see none at all). @Dr_Alex_Harrison is this something you control or just a google default linked to number of reviews or downloads?
And any news on updates? I actually quite like having an overall fueling recommendation for long rides or events as I change which bottles or soft flasks I use and I divide up and plan accordingly, but it’d be nice to have that a bit automated.
+1 although I’ve gotten tired of waiting and have an excel spreadsheet with some of “the maths” plugged in. I’m a bit of an outlier in that I very much split electrolytes and fuel. The app helps a bit with that, but it could be better.
So I will start a plan in the app. When I get to the screen with water/sodium/carbs, I will use the “add your products” feature. I ride with a 2.5/3l hydration pack and bento for all ride types, so the only rides where I have a variable are Road/Gravel can be any bottle type, but MTB is limited to 2x500 ml bottles (FS XC bike so it is what it is)
I can almost always nail the suggested carb numbers via solid/gel/liquid, but sodium can fall short, so I end up having to supplement it in my hydration pack, and if it’s a long ride and I’m refilling my pack, I need to make sure I have additional sodium citrate with me to augment the sodium in gu/nuun tablets (the latter needs more sodium than the former)
The other thing I have to do is bring extra of different types as I’m still working on the discipline of just eating what I have because that’s part of the job.
100% agree. Definitely want to have that part automated, too. It’s a heavy lift to get right, broadly. It is indeed being built. And we so appreciate your patience. We’re bootstrapped for now, so everyone on the team has another full-time job. Cannot thank you both enough for being with us and supporting our work.
I got referred to this app by a friend and it has been amazing in changing the way I fuel my workouts. Would be great though if I can provide my bottle sizes and have it help me portion or strategies on consumption. Indoors I can get it right but struggling with outdoors unfortunately
Feature request: pre-race fueling with zero fueling during the actual race.
I just ran a 5K yesterday and blew myself up completely. Then came to realize that the race was 6:45pm and I’d had a 4pm lunch of mostly protein. Oops. Other factors were in play, but this was one of them.
Saturday will tell me how to fuel a 5K race… IF I’m going to be consuming this fuel during the event. But it makes no sense for me to be trying to chug a half-liter of water with 15g of carbs during a 40-minute race. And some of us could use the guidance on what a great pre-race meal would be given whatever race we’re going to run/bike/etc.
Maybe a little checkbox during the “add activity” part that says I will NOT be fueling during the race, so please tell me what/when to eat beforehand?
Of course, if this is basically useless because the answers are always nearly the same and I just need to learn those answers one time, then someone kindly point me to where I can read up on the matter…
Goal: no more confusion and better execution with ease.
