Sometimes shite happens. The frame could have been previously damaged. And we all take certain risks riding 2 pound carbon frames. If one is really concerned about durability one should ride a Ti/steel frame, steel fork, and aluminum handlebars.
I agree that a metal frame from a small builder is likely safer, but even these come with carbon forks that are probably fine, but who really knows?
Isnāt Bontrager the Trek in-house brand for components?
It is. Just like all other āin houseā brands, they outsource the production to the lowest bidder.
Having said that, I recon Bontrager is one of the better ones around. Not cheap by any means, but very decent quality products.
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Agree about the previous damage. How many people really check their frame before going out?
Not sure if metal is really safer. My mateās Ti frame suddenly had a crack in the top tube, and he definitively didnāt crash it. Luckily he realised and got it repaired before anything happened.
Indeed it does. Iāve had a carbon bike (Spesh Roubaix) for ten years now with no problems. In all that time, plus the few years beforehand, that instance is the only verifiable incident I know of where a frame broke with no previous history of damage (my best man rides for that club and nothing came back along those lines). Given how many carbon bikes are out there and the wide range of care that will have been taken of those bikes thatās very low IMO.
That also applies to carbon MTBs where thereās much more likelihood of damage from either a good old crash, rock strikes, or doing tricks badly.
The failure mode of metal is different, but it is not true that one material is inherently worse than another. But even the few (carbon or metal) frame failures I have seen first-hand (very few but > 0), have fortunately been all non-catastrophic for the rider. (Although in one case there was catastrophic damage to the ownerās wallet ā¦)
If you are ever concerned about how delicate carbon wheels are, for example, have a look at how much it took Danny McAskill to destroy one of his sponsorās carbon rims. It is fair to say that if you have to remove the tire from the wheel to get it to crack, you can call the rim tough.
Yeah, agree. One thing about highly engineered composite frames is that each part is designed to do quite a specific job, and might fail surprisingly quickly if misused. For example, the top tube is mainly designed to be strong along itās length, keeping headtube and seattube connected. It would be a lot weaker if bend sideways, so for example putting a child seat on it might be a pretty bad idea. With metal, the design options are more limited (changing tube shape and diameter mostly), and probably more obvious from the outside (or, you have to pay a lot more money for a really high end frame).
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If this is a priority, then depending on your other priorities, get a metal bike that isnāt too focused on weight reduction. Metal bikes can still crack, but going for less butting and a prestige fork (or steel fork) would reduce the risk. Iāve never had an issue with carbon (other than a Yeti ASR cracking), but my roadie is a lugged custom steel Zanconato with a steel fork. Iāve raced in it and I generally donāt care about the last craze (anymore). So just worth balancing the riskā¦ you could go custom carbon as well.
If you want carbon, I think the warranty is worth it over the brand itself. As has been said, Trek, as an example, is amazing with itās warranties, making them a good option. Just donāt need to get an SLā¦
It starts to sound like Carbon bikes will spontaneously disintegrate from below your bum at any given moment. Reminds me of the fire safety course we once had at workā¦ the instructor sounded like itās basically a miracle that everything isnāt on fire at all times.
As said above, metal fails usually more gracefully. Metal tends to bend first and then break. Carbon shatters.
This video testing Santa Cruz frames does give one some confidence in carbon:
If you watch the whole video youāll see that the metal bends first but the structure is still intact. The carbon snaps suddenly but these MTB frames are quite beefy.
Last I knew, Giant manufactured frames for a truckload of other companies, soā¦ if their frames are good, so are others.
Well, if that counts, then steel bikes are dangerous too - I ran one into a car door, and it did not survive.
Thereās a world of difference in failure mode between steel, aluminum (and even then between aluminum types) and titanium. 7000-series aluminum, for example, is very stiff, but much more brittle and much less ductile than other types; it wonāt bend in a crash, it will break.
You are right, but I think you would be remiss to add that this particular carbon frame was much, much stronger than the aluminum frame they compared it with. The aluminum frame failed at a drop height of 450 mm with a weight of 38.5 kg while for the carbon frame even dropping the same weight from 900 mm (which means it is an impact with twice the energy) did not break the frame. They had to double the height and increase the weight by 30 % (to 50 kg) to have the frame fail. That a difference of 2.6 in terms of energy!
Then there is resistance against fatigue, which is a different story, too.
In my (limited) experience with failed carbon parts and frames, none of them caused catastrophic accidents. One team mateās frame had a cracked non-drive side chain stay, and the guy rode around with it for a while, because he was hesitant to pay the 60 % or whatnot that a new frame would cost him under the replacement program. (Not very wise, I know.)
Those two crashes were definitely rider error. The ātreeā incident was on Majorca on the descent from Lluc to Pollensa. The guy decided to tag along with my best man (whoās not the best descender TBH), they get to the first sharp bend and he lost it cartoon style skipping across the road. Looking at Google Streetview theyāve cut down parts of the tree now but you can see the stumps in this shot:
He went through the gap, rear wheel hit the left trunk, front wheel the right and the bike just folded! Fortunately for him a German couple were passing and offered him a lift back to his hotel. We just folded the bike up and put it in the boot(trunk). He got the KOMs on the lower segments of the descent because heād forgotten to turn off his Garmin! Unfortunately for him, it was a hire bike and he hadnāt taken out insurance 
Design mistakes and manufacturing quality issues happen for all companies. Itās a matter of how quickly problems are identified and what the company does to address the problems.
While people tend to hate on the big corporate brands, these big brands tend to do a better job identifying issues and have more resources to deal with problems through recalls or field fixes. Because they manufacture a large number of bikes and have a more organized dealer network, they are much more likely to pick up on an issue. Once they have identified an issue, they have the $'s required to replace parts or scrap a bunch of inventory if needed. They are pretty proactive on this because they have to mitigate the liability of someone getting hurt and suing them. Big companies have a lot to lose, so safety issues get their attention because lawsuits are bad for business and they are targets.
A smaller company might have great intentions, but they are less likely to pick up on a quality problem and they are much less likely be be able to absorb the cost of a recall or wide spread repair initiative. That makes them more likely to ignore a possible problem and āroll the diceā because they donāt have the financial strength or resources to execute a recall.
This is one of the reasons Iād never buy a frame, fork, handlebars, etc. from some ebay store from a company Iāve never heard of. Even if itās the exact same parts made on the same assembly line as the big guys, these companies just donāt have the motivation or capability of monitoring and reacting to quality issues that pop up.
Iāve been a part of 2 recalls on Specialized bikes (fork and aerobars). I donāt see that as Specialized having poor quality compared to other companies. I see that as Specialized being risk averse and having the motivation and resources to execute recalls when they see a potential safety problem.
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It is perhaps worth noting that Merida makes most (all?) Specialized and is a significant owner of Spec. Giant makes almost all Treks.
The take home is at the top levels of big brand names there are only a few manufacturers and they do a good job. If you go to smaller brands or open mold type stuff you may get a great product or not.
Upthread there was a nice call out for Time and Look. Those brands have great reputations. Iād ride either in a heartbeat.
Smaller manufacturers like Calfee (I have a tetra and my wife rides a luna) do a great job of engineering and QA/QC
Buying from a big name is a definite plus if you eventually have a problem. The cost factors in the possibility of replacement for manufacturing issue or frankly just to keep a customer with the brand.
Anecdote: Iāve had three frames failā¦
A larger name CF F/S mtn bike. Quickly replaced by the brand after a few questions to clarify that I hadnāt crashed and destroyed it myself. It was a great interaction as they asked reasonable questions and I wasnāt trying to pull one over on them.
A steel frame from a small Italian brand. There was a tube defect, likely a burr on the mandrel during butting. It took years for the failure to happen and there was no real recourse. My LBS (where I worked as a high school kid) gave me a used replacement frame to keep me going. Fair enough.
A steel custom frame from a now defunct builder. The fork failed as it wasnāt brazed properly. The builder not only didnāt take responsibility but didnāt care. No surprise he didnāt stay in business.
$0.02 Overall bikes and parts are darn safe. But in my mind it is worth a few bucks to buy from established manufacturers who are going to do a good job upfront and if they make a design mistake or have a production issue will be there to stand by the product. Custom / handbuilt is great too but go with an established builder unless you are taking a flyer on a new guy (which can be fun too but you need to know what you are getting into)
I would pick out Look. Unfortunately lately they offer only road frames. Not only do they have some of the highest manufacturing tolerances (along with Time and ahead of both Giant and Merida), Look also have their own factory in north Africa. And that is combined with BB standard which is actually superior to all other BB standards.
Apart from that, avoid chinese branded frames, always inspect a new frame by an expert. Inspect a frame yourself after every ride, and you should be on the safe side with pretty much any āregularā frame brand.
This video just caused Winspaceās website crashed todayā¦
I enjoy Giant but I have a set of FAR sport carbon wheelsets. I love paying for high quality but not overpriced goods.
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Beg to differ on āavoiding Chinese branded carbon frameā.
āMade in Chinaā is not the issue. āGarage productā is the issue. For example: check out this crap BB tolerance on a $12K non-chinese branded bike.
The part starts at around 4:50. Look at the spin testā¦Literally made me want to vomit.