So I usually do the 5x5 VO2 max intervals (Red Lake +3 or Mindengo and just run at ~110% FTP) but decided to try Ronnestadt style as an experiment. I picked Clouds Rest +1 which is 3x12 30s/20s @130% so not exactly the traditional 30/15, but close. I am not a punchy rider and am not strong above FTP so I thought I would struggle, but I didn’t even hit VO2 max breathing on this workout. You can see the differences in my heart rate below.
Not sure what I’m looking for in the discussion, but just thought I’d share my personal experience as I’ve been researching Ronnestadt vs. long VO2 max intervals quite a bit. I think if I went 30/15’s at a more sustainable power I could probably get closer. With that said, Clouds +1 is a highly novel stimulus for me at that power and think I could get good gains with it.
if you didn’t hit vo2 max breathing than it wasn’t vo2, that simple. back when I did adaptive training in 2021, I was given quite a few of these and at the time it was great because it felt so achievable. it wasn’t until after the fact that a) didn’t realize any appreciable gains and b) didn’t really feel like I was in my best shape for CX.
well not just that but make the effort harder and don’t use %ftp as a guide (and this goes for all vo2 workouts, for ex. my 4min max is 110-115% generally, whereas someone I’m coaching was doing 4min vo2s at 130%)
I am very weak from a high power perspective so I had no watts to give on this one. My ftp is like 88% of my peak 5 min which is why I suspect 5x5s will always work better for me
Anton Schiffer recently did a nice comparison of 30/30, 30/15, 40/20 and 4x5 intervals with Vo2 measurements. As you can see, the short-short intervals didn‘t bring him above 90% Vo2max. Long intervals are therefore the way to go.
That was mostly what I saw from my research too, but I wanted to try it.
I still think I got something out of this workout even if it wasn’t vo2 max. I have never done intervals at this power level so it was probably good stimulus.
I would also conclude, as you have, that 5x5’s is probably a better vo2 workout for you. I would also conclude that working on generating more top end power via strength training, sprints intervals, etc would probably be a good way to improve your overall cycling ability and potentially develop your ftp and vo2 power even further.
I saw some research that also pointed to doing a pyramidal type of vo2 workout that was even better (more time at vo2+ heart rate) than a standard 5x5 or 40/20. Basically starting with 5’ all out, followed by 4’ all out, and basically as you fatigue you keep reducing the interval length as to allow maximum power output. I believe the working interval length went as short as 30”. Recovery time was half the length of the working interval.
Yep great advice, especially on strength training and sprints. I just started cycling so I haven’t picked that stuff up quite yet but will soon. I was always a very punchy athlete (e.g., quick burst speed in hockey) so I thought I would have been more naturally inclined to that profile in cycling. Maybe some strength training would bring that back
Whoa, 5x5 is really efficient for you with more than 15min in Z6+ HR zone. I typically achieve 6-7min with 4x5 at ~114-118% of FTP. Best I have achieved is around 9min when doing it first time after half a year.
Yes exactly on the variety! I’m so burned out on the 5x5’s. They are such an amazing workout, but I dread them and need a lot of motivation to start them haha. Even if equal difficulty, some variety might help there (Dorr +5, 7x3’s, etc)
I have relatively flat power curve which I think helps. I target around 95% of my max 5 minute for those intervals and that seems to work well to get to vo2. I also moved recently to high cadence (110+) which made a massive difference for me.
With that said, I want to quit every minute I’m doing these intervals haha.
Yeah, I use high cadence too (110-120rpm). Although, while I don’t get so much time in target HR zone, I still breathe very rapidly, around 60 breaths/min.
