Riding full gas without coffee and breakfast

Just asking for personal experiences for reference, but if you set off riding full gas (above threshold) in the morning without coffee or breakfast, about how far do you get before you crack?

I only made it about 12 minutes at roughly Z5…

Not sure if I need to HTFU and/or do more high intensity or if that’s to be expected on a fasted ride with mocha doping…

1 Like

Breakfast? Depends on the workout.
Coffee? I’m not going.

On a more serious note, I can usually make it through shorter anaerobic repeats or sprints fasted, but sweetspot/threshold intervals are significantly easier if I’ve eaten beforehand. I know some people are fine with fasted v02 work, but personally I struggle with that in the first place so I’d rather go in with the best possible chance of success :joy:

Obviously there are some benefits to fasted endurance training, but I personally don’t find it beneficial to higher-intensity work- not only are you potentially limiting the amount of work you’re able to do, it’s also way more unpleasant IMO and makes it harder to complete workouts.


Fasted VO2 work is fine if the intervals are two or three minutes, but I was trying to chase a much lighter friend up a 50-minute climb… hahah…

Z5: 106-120%.

Coffee and breakfast would not have saved you unless those are code words for meth.


It depends on what condition you were in from the previous day. If you at a normal day’s worth of carbs the day prior and you were topped off on glycogen you would have a lot more than 12 minutes worth of fuel stored in your muscles.

1 Like

Oh wow! Well, you made it farther than I would have…

I might be mistaken here, but isn’t z5 only able to be sustained for like 5-15 minutes as a best effort? In that case that would be a pretty solid effort either way!

1 Like

I don’t ride full-gas workouts in the AM, but if I wake up late and commute to work, I can drill it for most of the 25-35 minutes without complaint (assuming not hungover or otherwise dehydrated). Coffee sorts itself out, I know I’ve got a 20oz traveler on my back , and instant oats at the office. Pre-covid I tended to do my intervals after the kids went to bed, but now I often tack them on to my commute home, either on the road or on the trainer immediately after getting home.

well, it was Z5 according to the ramp test I did two days ago.

I’m sure there was plenty of glycogen, but I wonder if maybe relatively low blood sugar can significantly affect RPE?

Absolutely. Full gas in the morning is enough to increase RPE for me :wink:

1 Like


How many zones in your model, and…why!?

Well, it may have actually just been high Z4 depending on what my actual FTP is, but it was roughly 10% over my last ramp test FTP test (which I didn’t totally nail).

Im sorry I just think it sounds funny; someone leaping straight out bed on to the bike at 110% FTP and falling apart after 12mins…why would anyone do this? You’re setting yourself up to fail every step of the way.

Have a small breakfast, get ready for the bike, take fuel/fluids to the bike if necessary, warm up…ride forever! :slightly_smiling_face:


my friend invited me to go riding at 5:00 a.m. and my house is literally at the bottom of the climb. hahaha.

I didn’t think the pace would be quite that fast, since he hasn’t been training in the last few years… but I outweigh him by 23 kilos.

I often train in a fasted state (no food that day). The threshold and VO2 workouts (TrainerRoad) up to one and a half
hours are no problem. Though then it gets hard. For endurance and sweetspot I would put the limit to two and a half hours.


I basically get through all workouts 60-90 mins on just a Nespresso.

Lately I’ve not been on TR as the weather is so nice but I’m doing 60min “TT” rides (30k) at 6am on just Nespresso.

Just to be clear I’m basically talking about a TT effort, not a workout.

Okay, what percentage of FTP are we talking then?


1 Like

Tell him to wait for you at the top! :rofl:

Okay, at least that makes some sense. This is the problem with riding with fitter riders, you’ve got two options;

  1. Get up in time for coffee and ride easier… either he does too or he doesnt

  2. Wave a magic wand and gain 10% w/kg before the next ride