Recovery Drinks, Overtraining, Beginner Racing and More – Ask a Cycling Coach 288

The notion that athletes cannot get Type 2 diabetes is wrong. It does happen.

It is possible to be an athlete with metabolic syndrome.

Cutting carbs is the fastest way to close to racing weight if you have significant weight to lose.

Carbs do make you fat. But carbs also make you fast.

Also, PEOPLE DON’T LIVE IN METABOLIC WARDS.

What podcast did Nate mention regarding nutrition in this podcast?

Around 56:20? It’s the Stronger By Science podcast. Another one to add to the list!
https://www.sbspod.com

Great content in #288 from the team :slight_smile:

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Great podcast as usual. Made me want to order (or mix) some recovery drinks. A lot of the premade stuff I stumbled upon seems to have a protein/carb ratio closer to 1:1 or something like that. Anyone knows why? Should I be looking for more carbs/adding them myself or is the ratio not that relevant?

Recovery drinks for swimming too? Calorie burn and impact just seems so little vs 1 hr bike intervals.

Since Nate mentioned the altered Work : Recovery Week ratio, here are the ones I wrote based on his comments about them a long time ago:

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@Nate_Pearson
So after months of waiting for an operation and then 3 months of recovery, I’m starting to ease myself back into training and was really looking forward to starting sweet spot base.
I work in a school where some staff have tested positive for covid and in an area of the uk where cases are suddenly increasing due to a new variant of covid, especially amongst the teenage population. I can wear a mask whilst walking round the school/office, but not whilst working directly with children (visors are ok). This is likely to be the situation for the next 2-3 months, at which point, being 50+ I hopefully get vaccinated. I think training sweet spot at this stage would have the potential to have a negative impact on my immune system, as I’m not used to it.
As you say, the science indicates that z2 does increase FTP, but it takes a long time.
Do you know of any science based methods to help me maximise 2-3 months of Z2 work, before starting SS base?
Thanks :slight_smile:

You’re in a unique situation that I don’t think has been studied.

I would go with your doctors advice and just focus on easing back in (if your doctor says it’s OK) and pay tons of attention to RPE.

Your top end will probably come down a bunch, but you can hold on to some aerobic gains by doing Z2 only so that’s good.

I think a big thing will just be being OK with reducing volume and becoming less fit. But getting it back is always easier the 2nd time.

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In addition to Nate, I’ll toss in “do short sprints” every so often. Some discussion over here:

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Tan walls on a black bike for sure!!

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I think any level of fitness will be an improvement on where I’m at ! :rofl: :joy:

When I’m able to do max efforts I will:
add 6 x30sec max efforts with 3 minutes active rest between, at the beginning of a Z2 work out, for some sessions per week.
Thanks @bbarrera

i like this podcast… so i will continue eating like i have been all holiday season… somehow i’ve only gained 5 lbs so far but I’ve given myself an allowance to gain 10lbs by the end of the holidays… lol

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@ambermalika Thanks again for a brilliant podcast. I’m completely torn on the carbs debate as I see the value of fuelling workouts and maybe this is just me here but when I am unrestricted in carb on this point I find it harder to be disciplined with food in general at other times. I get other issues like sensitive teeth and my weight definitely goes up (I’m not clever enough to unpick which parts are most relevant). Add this to my family history of Type 2 diabetes and I wonder if my short term performance gains might be more risky for me overall. Also I know he’s probably an outlier but Dr Dan Plews is definitely a successful athlete on low carb. Is there any way to optimise a more fat-centres approach for someone like me who probably has an underlying reason not to eat unrestricted carbs?

Thanks for this great question. I can understand your ambivalence, especially in light of the issues you mentioned. (Type II Diabetes also runs in my family, so this is definitely a concern I share.) At the end of the day, you need to figure out what works best for you, personally. You may not need 100g / hour to feel better during your workouts, but maybe taking in a bit more on the bike than you currently are could make a real difference. If you feel better when you train, then your mood is better, your workout quality improves, and you feel more motivated to get back to it for your next session. It helps fuel the individual workouts, and your overall consistency. If you’re not taking in any CHO on the bike, then even adding mix to your water and taking in, say, 60g CHO/h could feel worlds different. Perhaps mix in your bottles would decrease the likelihood of sensitive teeth relative to, say, gummies or chews (my dentist hates these and got me in the habit of rinsing with drink after eating them to avoid them sticking in my teeth). I personally find that my energy levels and appetite feel loads more stable throughout the day if I fuel my workout well and have a recovery drink after, and I’ve seen this over and over with folks who train regularly. The type and amount you need might be different from what works for me or for Nate. Can you train without CHO or on low CHO? Of course! Many people do. What you have been doing has been working for you, and that’s important. The main point is that there is a cost to to underfueling training: you can repeat better and produce more power on a full tank than on an empty one. You can still produce power and repeat on a less-than-full tank, of course. And optimal power output isn’t necessarily the only goal, right? It’s a balance, which comes down to cost-benefit. If – on balance – the issues you experience in taking in more CHO outweigh the gains you experience in power/mood/etc, then you can adjust the dial to where you find your happy place. If you’re worried because of past experiences and are therefore reluctant to try out of that (valid!) fear, I’d suggest trying a time-limited self experiment that introduces only one change. Add some mix with CHO to your next tough workout and see how you feel, both during the workout and in the hours afterward. Try a small recovery drink or recovery snack immediately after your ride. If sweets don’t suit you, you can always do something savory like rice and eggs for your recovery snack (CHO doesn’t have to mean sweet). Give it a week and see how you feel. If it doesn’t go well, you can always go back to what you know was working better for you. Nothing is an absolute! Think of this more in terms of a dial that you can turn up and down to find what works best for you. I personally think it’s worth a little experimentation, but see if by limiting the timeframe, you can go into it with more curiosity than fear. You and your body are in a partnership: try something, listen, adjust as needed. For what it’s worth, as regards the Type II Diabetes, the fact that you’re riding and training is HUGE. Don’t forget what a big difference that will make (and IS making) and how much credit you deserve for that effort and dedication!

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@Nate_Pearson
Thinking about it, I’m not sure if 30 secs x 6 max efforts with longer Z2 workouts would be any better for my immune system than low volume sweet spot. When I’m on my training schedule I usually do Tues,Wed,Thurs and Sat, Sun. I think if I skip the Wednesday work out, do low volume SS and Z2 Sunday it might be a helpful stress reducer in terms of time and TSS.
The main thing is for me to be honest with myself and dial down intensity/volume as and when necessary. There’s nothing like living in a pandemic to instil honesty and flexibility!
thanks for being sounding boards :grinning:

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Yeah that’s a thalidomide concern. I’ve done short 5-10 second sprints during z2 and those are not the same as 30 second jobbers.

Amber gave you a good response but I wanted to share my experience on this.

Sometimes “carb” foods are lumped in with “carb + fat” foods. IE cookies, doughnuts, pizza, French fries, etc.

I find if I eat carb+fat foods I CRAVE them even more.

For “carb” foods I think of: apples, carrots, broccoli, potatoes, whole wheat pasta with veggies and marinara, strawberries, blueberries, whole wheat bread with jam, oatmeal, whole wheat pancakes with fruit, brown rice…stuff like that.

This is of course a personal experience, but when I eat those foods I don’t really crave them, but they do taste good and I’m satisfied after eating them.

If you out a package of Oreos or Pringles in front of me (carb+fat foods) there’s almost zero chance I can stop at one.

It’s almost like they were engineered for people to binge on them. :thinking:

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^ this.

I printed the list here: https://athleanx.com/carbs and have it in the kitchen as a reminder.

Actually I copy&pasted into a Word doc, but I can’t attach Word/PDF/text docs on the forum… Love Jeff Cavaliere’s videos and science based info, but call me prudish when I say “dude put your shirt on!” :rofl: Below I’ve copy&pasted the info from his website into a simple list, to keep this post tidy you have to click to expand the list:

STARCHY CARBS list from https://athleanX.com/carbs

Oatmeal Cream of Wheat
Whole Wheat Waffle
Whole Wheat Bread Stix
Pretzels
Banana
Brown Rice
Cous Cous
Applesauce
Baked Sweet Potato
Red Bliss Potatoes
Pasta Salad
Angel Hair Pasta
Acorn Squash
Cereal
Peas
Fat Free Granola Bar
Ritz Crackers
Whole Wheat Wrap
Cranberry Sauce
Saltines
1 oz Dark Chocolate
Baked Potato
Barley
Corn
Sweet Potato Fries
Ziti
Whole Wheat Pita
Butternut Squash
Linguine
Jasmine Rice
Whole Wheat English Muffin
Spaghetti
Long Grain Rice
Quinoa
Spelt
Turnips
Basmati Rice
Oyster Crackers
Whole Wheat Bread

and

FIBROUS CARBS list from https://athleanX.com/carbs

Apple Fresh
Blueberries
Frozen Blueberries
Fresh Strawberries
Frozen Strawberries
Grapefruit
Cantaloupe
Carrots
Red Bell Pepper Slices
Celery Slices
Lettuce Varieties
Edamame
Green Bell Peppers Raw /Cooked
Broccoli
Tomatoes
Fresh Grapes
Frozen Grapes
Grilled Asparagus
Mushrooms
Wilted Spinach
Zucchini
Squash
Navy Beans
Lima Beans
Black Beans
Grilled Eggplant
Onions
Sun-Dried Tomatoes
Green Salad Cucumbers
Broccoli Rabe
Peach
Pear
Nectarine
Plum
Banana
Dried Apricots
Mango
Slices Mixed Berries
Steamed Cabbage
Sliced Oranges
Tangerines
Sprouts
Kale
Collard
Greens
Kidney Beans
Canned Pumpkin
Brussel Sprouts
Pomegranate
Craisins
Radishes
Fennel
Papaya
Chili Peppers
Grape Tomatoes
Black Eyed Peas
Scallions
Shaved Ginger
Pickles
Cauliflower

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This, 100% of the time. My take on cookies is that the nutritional facts information should really have a serving size of “one package”.

Netflix, a box of cookies, a glass (more) of red wine and short-term satisfaction is guaranteed. Sleep quality, not so much. :rofl:

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