Ramp test in ergo mode resulted lower FTP

I just completed a ramp test in erg mode and has come in way lower than my previous one that i done in standard. It did not feel right in erg mode as it felt like it did not really change at all resulting in not hitting target power. I find this while using erg mode in the training sessions as well. Am i better off just sticking to standard mode

Please share a link to your Ramp test, from the web page for it (your TR account must be Public for is to review it.

What trainer did you use?

What gearing did you issue for the test?

Did you shift at all during the test?

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Similar to you I did my first one in erg mode yesterday, I did go up a little but it definitely felt off, I dislike the erg mode since it feels like I’m reacting to power versus dictating power, also I would usually be able to push through even at 80ish cadence, however on erg mode when I drop to 80 it’s game over. I wish there was a way to emulate fluid trainer curve with a smart trainer.

Do you normally train in Resistance/Standard/Slope mode (not ERG)?

If so, why the use of ERG in the Ramp Test?

Similar to above:

What trainer did you use?

What gearing did you issue for the test?

Did you shift at all during the test?

So my setup is weird. Since all of my workout data is on Garmin and the only way for Garmin to calculate some of their metrics is to record the workout on the Garmin unit itself. I use Fenix 6x. The watch can not control the trainer.

So what I do is outside workout in TR pushed to Garmin, follow the workout on my watch as I do flat course in zwift and I let zwift control my trainer since the 0% incline does a good job of emulating outside resistance ie. Faster you go harder it is, similar to fluid trainer I used to use.

Ramp test doesn’t have outside variant so I figured if try the erg mode. It was weird and defiently something im not used to but I still got a bump so it’s probably just going to take some getting used to.

I might rethink my setup and try to use erg mode more often.

Yeah, that is odd. Introducing a new and different variable like ERG is not a great idea, with your unique setup. Depending on your gearing options, and the trainer, you might have a better experience with higher gearing and faster flywheel speed, but that is a guess.

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wait so you did the ramp test in resistance/incline mode? Can you post a pic of those results as well?

yeah I used to do them on a fluid trainer before I got H3
This one is from January

I had the same issue.

Went from a Watt bike as my reference each test to having to use a Wahoo kickr. chose to do this on erg mode. This was due to CV19 removing access to gym. Reflecting back having the option to fluctuate power on the Watt Bike it allowed minor relief but hitting an average, which was easier than a smart trainer holding at a set power.

Went down 4Watts c.1% so this may just be within tolerance of the powermeters but this was after 4 weeks of build so was hoping to go up but with all variables changing i’m actually not bothered since its just a new reference for training going forward, at home during cv19 lockdowns.

ah ok, what does the erg mode steps look like. Does the avg 1 min steps for all the previous steps in the test equal to the target? The ~4 steps before the final 1.5 steps look a bit under on avg

Yeah the erg mode looks smoother, the average for that step might have been a little under but usually I do try and keep them right on the low point. Here is the video:

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Yea the incline ramp test looks pretty good considering, its just something to think about if the couple steps before the final step are low and the final 1 min his high then the estimated FTP may be slightly inflated compared to an erg mode version

There is some magic math behind the scenes that looks at the best 5-minute power too, and will adjust the stated result FTP based on any irregularities. It is meant to catch and correct late effort spikes compared to potential lows that came before it. So they have that angle basically covered.

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@mcneese.chad I wasn’t sure which ramp test topic in the forum I was going to post to but just chose the most recent one. I have had trouble with my ramp tests on erg mode on a kickr core. Here are my last 3 ramp test. I thought they were all lower than they should be and apparent trouble with the erg resistance matching the prescribed power.

I initially started TR on rollers with the L stages. In November, I purchased the KICKR core and did my first ramp test in December. I had trouble with power match with my L stages especially with VO2 work. Thus per TR help desk I turned it off and just used my stages for power.

TR started in July on rollers with stages. FTP Ramp tests: Aug 277–> Sept 292–>Oct 303

First KICKR Ramp test:
December: FTP 287 (threw out) done on small ring front and mid cassette back which matches my normal training.

2nd KICKR ramp
January: FTP 300 or so (threw out) I forget if I tried to shift at the end of this to provide more resistance. Fatigued test.

Given the power wasn’t matching the demand I reached out to the help desk again. They had me do an advanced spin down and turn power match back on.

3rd Kickr ramp
February FTP 306 (kept) larger big ring/mid cassette:

I reached out to them again:
TR HELP DESK:
"As for the Ramp Test, I can see what you mean towards the end of the ride. It looks like we were continuously trying to send higher Erg targets to the trainer, in order to help it ramp up its resistance, so that you would be able to hit the target power of the interval. This is intentional, as we want to ensure the reading on your power meter matches the target power of the ride. In cases where the power meter reading is too low, we will send higher targets to the trainer.

However, it appears that in this case, the trainer was not able to offer a higher resistance level in order for you to hit the power target. We were in the process of sending higher and higher targets in order to help further ramp up the trainer’s resistance.

Usually in cases like this where the resistance is struggling, especially at high wattage values, we would recommend switching into a harder gear , as this will immediately give you more resistance to hit those higher targets, instead of waiting for the trainer to adjust.

This is a bit of a tough question. The issue being caused here is not a software-based one but influenced heavily by mechanical limits. Here is what looks like is going on from my end, and also based on the ramp test data.

Looking into your test two things are happening, as you go into the higher intervals your cadence is getting shakier as well as slower which is totally natural. On top of this, you’re hitting a higher level where the power may not match may be struggling more due to the added mechanical strain. This is the need to shift to a harder gear, I think going into it this way may help.

Currently, I think that is going to be your best bet. Go into your ramp test in the highest gear you feel comfortable riding at and see how it goes. If it feels underestimated still it may be a good practice to shift it up as you need to.

PowerMatch is really amazing but the added complexity of it can make the relationship between trainer and PM hard at times causing off behavior."

Basically in the end they said to manually increase my FTP. I manually increased to 330 because I had been adjusting up all my intensities from my rides and had not failed any previous ride. I’m currently rebuilding back to base. 330 definitely feels hard but manageable on base…not sure if this will be too much once I started Short power build. I’ve been on LV plan from the beginning.

Sorry for the long message. Made my account public.

@mcneese.chad Hey Chad sorry for the long message but I was wondering if you could take a look at this post above regarding my ramp test. Thanks! Will

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I saw this when it was posted, and forgot to follow up (been crazy here lately :stuck_out_tongue: ). Sorry about that.

Let me revisit it and I will reply soon.

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So, I am just an outsider here, but the TR comments make sense from the apparent stall in the end of the first 2 tests. The 3rd test, done in the big ring, shows typical more power fluctuation, but it seems to follow the target power blocks better than the lower wattage.

Is seems like the trainer is failing to increase resistance enough to hit the higher targets at the end of the test. Testing with higher gearing makes sense and may solve the issue.

I also suggest considering one or more fans on the resistance unit during the test. One on the drivetrain side near the rear, and blowing on the open holes. Try to keep the electronics cooler. It may also help to have one on the flywheel side, to assist in moving air from that hot area. It could be a simple problem of overheating.

Not sure if those will help, but they are all I can think of right now.

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Thanks @mcneese.chad. I’ll definitely try these tricks. I appreciate your advice. Do you think I should reach out to wahoo or is there someone at TR who specializes in this?

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If you get another stall in the next test, I think it could be a trainer issue, and worth contacting Wahoo support.

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