I did a ramp test today which resulted in a new FTP of 285. I then did Collins. After the ride (my Garmin Edge 830 recorded this as one ride) the Edge announced it found a new FTP of 315. Does anyone know how the Edge calculates FTP? How does your, ramp test derived, FTP compare with the one calculated from Edge head units? Both TR and the Edge were paired to the same (Vector 3) power meter
Don’t know the how but ignore Garmin. Work with TR’s recommendation.
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Just a guess, but the garmin may correlate HR with the effort. If the HR max is entered incorrect, then it could assume you weren’t going as hard as you could be.
It’s anyone’s guess.
Here’s mine:
int ftp = random.Next(200, 400);
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Last I knew, Garmin is using FirstBeat both for FTP and VO2max estimation. Their general technology is to look at trends in heart rate vs. power. Their writeup suggests that the FTP estimation is based on HRV within a workout.
There are lot of ways of estimating FTP. Golden Cheetah fits a model to your power curve, which requires that you do some short and long max efforts (but not in the context of a test). I think TrainingPeaks / WKO does the same. Intervals.icu uses a single short max effort. All of the models and tests are susceptible to different kinds of bias.
Since TrainerRoad workouts and plans are designed with the FTP results from their tests in mind, unless you have a good reason to believe the test isn’t working for you, you should use the TrainerRoad test results.
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Edge 530 online manual:
Since the last Edge 530 FTP update in October (reasonably accurate), I’ve only been doing group rides outside and haven’t received a single FTP update. And I record all of my indoor training on 530. Go figure. I think the FirstBeat algorithm needs speed and power.
The vo2max estimates work on indoor training rides, and I’ve found them to be comparable and consistent to other estimates.
I believe it calculates best 20min power and multiply by .95 Did it get power from the same source?
seems about right haha
I use TR inside and Garmin outside, same PM. I get roughly the same numbers, within a couple watts. - Sina
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I used the same power meter inside with TR and outside with Garmin, the FTP result is different, Garmin shows a more higher FTP than TR’s. So when i train inside, i would increase the power a little bit if i feel comfortable. Increase from 100% to 105-110%
Hi, my FTP with Garmin is 317 or 3.56W/Kg
With TR I did a ramp test on Monday as I’ve just signed up, and it came up as 264 or2.9 w/kg. It seems everyone has the same thing going on, which I guess is reassuring that I;m not gonna be underachieving.
Garmin and Firstbeat aren’t exactly newbies to this game, and to consider their metrics or calculations to be ‘garbage’ or ‘random’ isn’t fair.
I dual record all my data on both Garmin and TR. My Garmin reports FTP changes at various times throughout the season – and I must admit, I think it’s pretty damn close. I have been using Garmin data for many years. I don’t like the way it figures my Training Status or Recovery Hours, but I respect their calculations. When it comes to FTP and VO2 (which are Firstbeat driven), I find the data to be accurate, reliable, and I can cross-correlate it with other platforms and methodologies.
I ride with an 830, Fenix 6, and either a TICKR or Scosche HRM. PM on all bikes is Quarq.
I train with a Kickr, Fenix 6, Scosche HRM and always powermatch on my Quarq.
Garmin syncs data and health metrics between the 830 and Fenix 6 perfectly, after every activity.
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I use a ramp test to keep things consistent. FTP means nothing to me.
But the Garmin estimate is usually close enough that it can be believed. I only get an update on certain occasions, which of course a ramp test is included (I dual record or record on the Garmin only). I have been on the ecosystem for a long time, don’t know if that matters. I did do a VO2 test in a lab a long time ago and it is close to what Garmin says (Garmin is actually lower for running, but virtually identical on cycling).
My problem with the Garmin metrics is that there is little guidance. I haven’t found Garmin’s FTP very accurate. I have good short power and Garmin will assess my FTP too high based on a 3 minute effort.
As with any model, it helps to have data. Maybe Garmin’s metrics will work better with a full power curve of data - like 5 sec, 1 min, 5 min, 20 min, etc? But one has no idea because Garmin doesn’t tell us what their model ideally needs. I don’t like getting random new FTP alerts based on a single effort. It also has to be recorded on my 530 with a HR strap. I get zilch from the 530 if I forget my HR strap on a ride.
WKO says my VO2max is 39 and Garmin says it’s 58. Having never had a test in a lab, I’m not sure what is correct.
I also don’t like Garmin’s training distribution recommendation. According to them I’m always deficient in high aerobic. They basically want me to do FTP intervals - a lot of them.
My conclusion is that Garmin metrics just aren’t informative enough for someone who trains seriously.
2 updates last week and one yesterday. Last field test put FTP into 260-270 range. Yesterday did some 4+ minute vo2 intervals and Garmin updated FTP estimate at 263. Tempo intervals last week and Garmin put estimate at 259. Works well for me.
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