The differences are striking. As a fast twitcher, looks like biking is the wrong pastime for me 
2 Likes
and why I see fast/easy gains with tempo and sweet spot 
1 Like
Fast twitch: “Tends to be beat up by and does not adapt well to threshold workouts” 
.
you play the hand dealt!
I did for 25 years playing rugby!
1 Like
You just have to train the aerobic engine correctly (long slow distance) and then keep your top end tuned up and beat the competition to the line.
It’s like Sagan vs Bernal - one can win the Tour and the other can win Paris-Roubaix or a flat stage of the Tour. You have to pick the event that matches your talents.
1 Like
Yeah - I’d be a good sprinter if it wasn’t for the ankle injury I got years ago playing rugby. I can’t put much torque any more through my ankle, so that’s not an option. Too bad, as I’d love to try some crits.
Me too my friend!
Yep, middle distance track runner and American football defensive back here.
1 Like
The differences quoted in the sides are striking.
However, I was a little disappointed with the recommendations on the kinds of training that works best for fast twitchers. To paraphrase - and a little tongue in cheek - don’t do too much volume and include long easy breaks between hard intervals.
This does not sound like great training for a cyclist, contrasting with the slow twitch recommendations that look very aligned with what you’d think of for cycling training.
There was also no mention of long low cadence tempo/SS workouts to improve fatigue resistance (which the INSCYD guys recommend as the best way to reduce VLaMax).
Anyways, if nothing else, it does indicate that training can/should be quite different depending on rider physiology. There is an opportunity for TR to help athletes understand this better, and potentially use information on rider profile to tailor training plans.
3 Likes
Striking? It looks more like a presentation for coaches to understand and fine tune workout prescription based on what a coach is seeing from actual training data and athlete feedback.
I’ll join in your pity party (LOL) and take the other side… “races are won with sprints at the end so my slow twitch dominate fiber type dooms me to failure”
1 Like
Those were just slides so we don’t know what the presentation included. I searched for it but couldn’t come up with it. My guess is that the Inscyd stuff by Sebastian Weber might be more advanced.
I think the take-away for me is that this kind of stuff confirms that polarized is the way to go and that fatiguing myself trying to do threshold and sweet spot everyday won’t work for me.
I’m going to think about the points about micro intervals or over/unders with Z1 rest periods for fast twitchers.
I’m planning on doing Inscyd and full metabolic testing in the next couple of months. I’ve got a connection at my local university. It will be interesting how that goes.
1 Like
Based on the INSCYD stuff, I’d say pyramidal is better vs polarized - i.e. to include tempo/low-SS workouts to improve fatigue resistance (but avoid much threshold or high-SS).
Edit - Ah - sorry @bbarrera - I replied to wrong post. Meant for @AJS914
1 Like
trying to do intensity everyday is a problem, no matter if it is vo2 work, threshold, sweet spot, or tempo.
1 Like
Last year I did a huge base period of 12 weeks - lots of LSD and one group ride per week which includes about 30 minutes of threshold and 30 minutes of SS. I got a huge boost out of the base miles and around week 8 I was flying and breaking all my PRs.
After base I mixed in some SS and tempo intervals but I didn’t get a giant boost out of it. FTP did seem to gradually rise another 20 points towards the end of the year.
For Nov/Dec I just cruised, cutting back to 6 or 8 hours per week, took a 2.5 week break at the holidays and now I find I’m flying again at the end of January. I guess it’s my January peak. 
In the last two weeks I’ve been ramping up LSD volume (11 hours last week) I’ve gotten one strava KOM, three strava top 10s on climbs, and a new PR on another 15 minute local climb.
I’m going into base at a way higher level than last year. I think “base” will be shorter (8 weeks) and at a higher volume this year and then I’ll mix in the tempo/SST and then a short block with VO2max and/or over-unders.
2 Likes
I don’t have power outside yet (only on the smart trainer) so I have just used Seiler’s prescribed 65-70% of HRmax.
I’m going to do metabolic testing this spring so I’ll learn my true LT1 (aerobic threshold).
For me that is 177 x .70 = 124bpm
Here’s an interesting thing that happened last spring. When I first started riding LSD, 124bpm was excruciatingly slow - like 12mph. I was used to riding comfortably at 17-18 and had no problem doing group rides averaging 18-20.
So, it was really hard to train at 12mph but I kept with it. Now, 9 months later, I find myself cruising around 17-19mph at the same 124bpm. I also frequently find myself doing LSD at 115bpm because it still represents a comfortable pace. 124bpm actually feels like I’m putting pressure on the pedals if you know what I mean. Frank Overton describes this sensation as zone 2.
Bottom line, my aerobic power curve or lactate curve has obviously shifted towards the better. I’m making more power at every sub threshold aerobic HR. It’s not reflected in a high FTP (though my FTP has gone higher) but it feels like I have way more endurance. When motoring along in group rides I often see my HR at say 135bpm which is tempo. Last year, my HR would have been 145-150 for the same effort which is sweet spot.
3 Likes
Interesting thank you 
I’m thinking about giving Seilers 3 zone model a shot. I’ve got about 16 weeks until I have a granfondo.
My ftp is 200 and I’m 55 this year. I’ve been cycling for the last 5 years with the last 2 being structured. I have no racing goals at all, but just want to be fit enough to ride the odd granfondo with my friends and my son, although he’s a much better cyclist than I am 
(320w ftp).
I’ve been reading over Chad’s @mcneese.chad excellent power zone spreadsheet and I can see that z1 is about 65-78% of ftp. Would I still see improvements if I do my z1 rides at 60-70% of ftp? As I’m not sure I could hold 78 or even 75% for up to 4 hours.
Thanks