I don’t have a shimano crankset, so apologies for the stupid question: can you not re-use the existing left-side crank (4iiii/stages)? It’s the spindel that is faulty, right? Or have they changed the interface?
Does anyone know why Shimano‘s mountain bike cranks are not part of the recall? AFAIK they use the same Hollowtech II construction.
Would the local bike shop have to return the old crank to Shimano? I’m thinking this might be needed to prevent fraud. If so, I guess that Shimano would stop working with any shop that sent back too many undamaged cranks?
My understanding is that if the shop feels that there are songs of damage, the cranksa re sent to Shimano for a deeper inspection / replacement.
Shimano has not done a very good job at all of communicating what happens during this whole process…and honestly, I’m not certain they know exactly. Feels very much like they are trying to figure it out as they go along.
I wouldn’t be surprised that they only figure out a response once they can gauge how many cyclists are actually having their cranks checked. I reckon a minuscule number actually knows. And bikes aren’t like cars that in most jurisdictions are subject to regular mandatory inspections.
At this point, they should have a good grasp on what are the Best, Realistic, and Worst case scenarios and have plans for each.
Rough guesses being Best = 1% or less, Realistic = 1-2% and Worst = +3%. NOTE - these are total SWAG numbers, but based on my experiences, I think they are reasonable guesses.
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It blows me away that shimano engineers think a bike mechanic can look at a crankset and see if the crank is good or might fail. Visual inspection in the back of a bike shop?
(EDIT: much like how bike shops are meant to be able to look at a carbon bike and tell if it’s got a crack in it)
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From what I can gather, they are checking to see if there are signs of actual failure….there is no way to inspect and gauge the potential for future failure, as far as I can tell.
Which is a large hole, IMO….and arguably gives the user a false sense of security
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I would make a fixture, and put the crank on a load frame like an Instron. Then apply a force (50kg, or 60, maybe more) and measure the deflection.
I wouldn’t think X-ray would show anything without load.
Could be other ways too, but these are my first thoughts.
Yeah, I don’t think sending out thousands of testing fixtures is really a feasible option, financially.
Whole thing is a bit of a mess……
For sure, no way to have bike shops do a meaningful test, and the visual inspection is almost useless. I would love to know if the 4000 failures had any visible separation before they failed or not.
I will do a visual on my set, just in case it’s already failed. Maybe take into the shop just to see if the shop is being conservative and I can get new cranks/rings, but my 6800 setup is only on the trainer, so risk of injury is pretty low.
I have XT-8000 and GRX-810 on my main bikes, and they appeal not impacted by this “recall”.
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Turns out my old bike is affected: I had sold my endurance road bike on another forum, and I reached out to the buyer as soon as I heard from the recall.
The buyer replaced the 6800-series Ultegra crank with a 105 crank, because the crank felt funny and wouldn’t “move in a perfect circle” (his words). Not sure whether the terms and conditions for the recall are the same in Shimano land, but he might actually get to test whether he gets money for the 4iiii power meter on the left crank arm.
I was wondering about this, too: I have a M9000 XTR crank on my mountain bike. Do they share the 105/SLX Hollowtech construction that is not affected? Or did Shimano simply not elect to include them?
As far as the official recall goes, only Hollow Tech II road cranks ULTEGRA FC-6800, FC-R8000 and DURA-ACE FC-9000, FC-R9100 and FC-R9100-P with certain production codes up to July 2019 are affected.
However, GRX 800 (11 speed) launched in May 2019, also with Hollow Tech 2 cranks. Presumably they have the same structure type relying on the bonded joint. And also presumably some of them were built before July 2019.
So I strongly suspect the recall will later expand to GRX 800. Given that this recall has been done poorly so far, I wouldn’t be surprised if Shimano knows more models are affected and they either aren’t ready to announce those yet or they are trying to avoid recalling any but the most egregiously failing models.
Ironically I only installed my GRX crank a month ago, replacing an Easton crank. So I should be able to ride it for a year waiting to see if this recall gets expanded.
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IIRC, Shimano revised the construction method for the the HT II cranks around this time (see upthread). If that is correct, I would not necessarily expect the recall to expand to GRX.
I don’t know if I have ever seen any claims of it occurring to a GRX crank.
It’s interesting (upsetting?) looking around the internet and reading the comments section on different sites
It seems that some people actually want to be offended and suffer failing cranks just so that they can say ‘I was one too’.
There are those who are appalled that Shimano’s approach is ‘only’ a visual inspection and then there are those who want to go further and create/speed up the delamination process.
I’ve polled some customers about whether they would pay to have their carbon frame ultra sound tested, particularly if buying or selling second-hand, and they wouldn’t. If they have an issue they’d just ‘flick’ it on. Caveat Emptor. Often these are the same people who don’t notice the collapsed wheel or freehub bearing they already have.
If people won’t pay to have an expensive frame and fork, a major stress-bearing part of a bike, checked, why would they expect to go further than an inspection for a relatively cheaper crank and have it replaced just in case?
Debating whether Shimano has gone far enough without being privy to their internal rationale can’t do the industry any good. It only pushes up costs further for the consumer and reduces availability and choice and causes mistrust and worry. It’s a race to the bottom seemingly wanting organisations to fail.
Schadenfreude any one.
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Zack Overholt provides this comment on the Bike Rumor article regarding third party power meters:
Great question. I asked Shimano’s PR team about this, and this was their response: Cranks and/or any Shimano products that are modified by 3rd parties are not covered by warranty, but as an exception, they will be subject to this inspection. Any items that are found to fail during inspection and that are sent back to Shimano will be replaced free of charge without the 3rd Party Power Meter attached. Shimano will be providing a rebate in the form of a check to the consumer where the consumer can use that towards the replacement of the 3rd party power meter.
So you specially get a check and can spend it on whatever.
My question is what happens to their existing inventory of 11 spd cranks? By any standard of inspection, they are just fine and therefore not subject to replacement.
But damn few consumers are gonna buy them now, and they would arguably be selling a product with a known recall against it.
And even if they can get that inventory replaced, what about the PM’s attached to them? Can they be removed / reused?
This has gotta hurt their bottom line in a substantial way….
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Good question. If they sell them post-recall it’s very tricky. One for the lawyers to hash out, maybe in communication with Shimano.
I think a lot of it will come down to whether they are obtaining the cranks direct from Shimano or their official distributors and what those contracts say, plus how much Shimano values their business.
Shimano technically directly competes against them. But since Shimano power meters are crap (due to this bad crank design), in reality people wanting accurate power might avoid Shimano all together if Stages and 4iiii get burned and stop making products for Shimano cranks. So Shimano needs to tread carefully.
Yup…ultimately, my guess is this will get worked out based on industry relationships more than anything else.
Yea agreed. I get the impression people just kind of like tk be angry about this stuff. I am NOT some sort of advocate for capitalism/companies. But never was there any sort of promise/expectation that bike parts are going to last forever or never fail. Stuff breaks.
From a safety standpoint, I’m a lot more concerned about the fallibility of inner tubes than I am shimano cranks, even with the recall…
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