Prioritizing long term improvement over this season's race results?

Might take a bit of math planning as it’s going to vary depending on what kind of work you are doing.

kJ = duration x average power (= total work)

TSS = duration x (NP/FTP)^2

Or just put ‘kJ’ on your headset display and keep an eye on it.

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Energy E in joules (J) is equal to the power P in watts (W), times the time period t in seconds (s):

E (J) = P (W) × t (s)

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Thanks. I had the math part already since I had to add it to my own WKO graph that would display work as time went on but it’s as a review for past workouts.

Guess I was hoping there would be an easy way to give a value of work that I didn’t know about for planning ahead in building a workout.

The formula is a easy way to build a fatigue resistance workout. Wanted to burn through at least 1600 kj prior to some sprint efforts, I knew I needed to average ~ 188 watts for 2 hrs 30 minutes, before completing the sprints. Attached is an example of a workout from last October (I’ve done it many times since and longer variations with 2000kj before the intervals. This was the first one I found when quickly looking.)

Edit: Normally do them outside but this example is easier to see the idea.

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Appreciate it. Thinking I’ll try to make an Excel sheet that computes work and stress based on power and time inputs. Probably overkill but somedays I’m lazy😂

Funny you say that, that is exactly what I did. Misplaced that particular file at the moment, but I tend to do a lot of planning in Excel. Like cut n pasting iLevels in Excel and then using a few formulas to suggest interval workouts.

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For a 2,800 kJ example, complete the following TR workout and then do a 1x20min 100%FTP interval. :flushed:

https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/workouts/6589-disaster

For some weird reason, many others will join you in your pain (except for maybe that additional 20 min!):

I guess that would be Disaster -1 … still looks insane, I can’t remember the last time I was on the trainer for 3+ hours.

I do a fair bit of fatigue resistance training indoors and tend to prefer zwift for this type of workout.

I’ll do a 40-60min race, 60-90 high Z2/tempo, and finish with another race followed by Z2 to hit my kJ target for the day.

I can pretty easily hit 3500-4000kj in ~4hrs and not be bored out of my mind, just spent.

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Boy, made a spreadsheet and it took quite some time to think of how to compute NP within the workbook. Bit limited in a couple aspects but it works for planning a TiredXX interval at Y kJ.

So I’ve been doing a bit more research about how to classify these energy demands and how to train them. Correct me if I am wrong but there are three main areas of endurance that we are aming to improve: Capacity, TTE(time to exhauston), and Fatuige Resistance.

This is what improving each one looks like:

Capacity:
20 minute intervals, trying to rase intensity over subsiquent workouts
ex. start ar 2x20@90%FTP work towards 2x20@100+%FTP

TTE:
Extending the duration of the intervals over subsiquent workouts
ex. start at 2x20@90%FTP and work towards 3x40@90%FTP

Fatiuge Resistance:
Increasing number of intervals in a workout over subsiquent workouts
ex. start at 2x20@90%FTP work towards 5x20@90%FTP

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Where do over-unders fit in those three areas?

Some great advice above.

My 2 cents though would be that if you really want to go pro you should seriously consider getting a coach to help you on that journey, ideally one with experience of taking riders through from top amateur to pro ranks and who therefore has an understanding of what attributes are needed to pick up a pro contract, what training and racing is needed to acquire those attributes, and a network that can help get you visible to the right people.

TR is awesome. The people on this forum are awesome. There is a huge wealth of knowledge here and people who are prepared to share it. But the reality is that most of us are at best keen amateurs whose knowledge of what it takes to be a pro is mostly second-hand or based on observation not first-hand experience. For the 99% of people who are doing this as a hobby and can afford to make mistakes along the way, learn from them and adapt and improve, everything you need is right here. But if the goal is to go pro you have a relatively short timeframe to make it, and therefore need to minimise the mistakes you make along the way. I think an experienced professional is the best way to do that. And for context I generally think that most people who pay for coaching are wasting their money. I can’t tell you how many people I know who are paying for a coach but are completely failing to address basic limiters like not training consistently, not eating properly, not getting enough sleep, etc.

Just my N=1, feel free to ignore it. But I guess that applies to any free advice you get from an internet forum which is kind of my point! Best of luck as well, keep us informed of progress and if you make it to pro with a combination of TR and self-coaching I will be the first to congratulate you!

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To add on to what @cartsman said, there’s some coaches on here. I couldn’t list references for you but I know @brendanhousler and @TimWKO both coach cyclists, can’t say if they’re looking for trainees. Both have websites and videos. Tim does go into a bit of detail in some videos I’ve watched for WKO such as this one. Coaches aren’t cheap, in case you didn’t research that.

gold standard here is USA is 3,000kj for cat 1-2 racer, so can just use energy expended beforehand if you like

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thanks for the rec! I GREATLY APPRECIATE THAT!!! I do have room for some more for 2020 if anyone is interested in chatting. Cheers Trippy!

Brendan

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In a fourth area called ‘The Devil’s Work’. Enter at your own risk!!!

But seriously…O/U are a weird workout focused mainly on bettering your relationship with lactate and not directly on improving any of the listed three cats (although they will probably improve).

Read the description of a classic O/U workout: Bear Creek.

:+1:

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I will second the recommendation for @brendanhousler. Brendan coached me this year in my prep for Dirty Kanza 200. He was knowledgeable, supportive and enthusiastic. Warning, his workouts are HARD! But worth it. Maybe the best thing he did for me is tell me to rest when I was sick. He gets the concept of working incredibly hard but then following up with rest.

If I had endless $ or was actually going for the pros (as opposed to being 52 and just riding for fun), Brendan would be on my short list for coaches.

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thanks Sandy! I get the $ side, but carving out some funds to make you the best athlete you can be is totally worth it; which is why I have a coach too! hope to cross paths again soon!

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This also has got me thinking about a closely related tangent:

How long can the base period be extended?

ex. can I go from outdoor base miles to traditional base 1,2&3 then on to SSB 1&2 before build?