once a week - generally tuesdays
(BTW - Great screen name)
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Thanks for your insight. I too am going to venture into the Polarized world and test the waters.
I put together this progression that features 1 threshold day and 1 VO2max day per week for intensity. I thought it could be nice to hit both systems, versus focusing only on threshold. I typically carry around 350-400TSS/week on a Sweet Spot approach so I’m curious to see how I get along here. Trying to be conservative.
Block 1 (Threshold workouts are 4x6 @ 105% then 4x7 @ 105%; VO2 workouts are 30/30s and 30/15s on, respectively)
Block 2 (Threshold workouts are 4x8 @ 102% then 4x8 @ 105%; VO2 workouts are 30s/15s and 40s/20s)
Block 3 (Threshold workouts are 4x8 @ 105%; VO2 workouts progress to 60s/60s, 90s/60s)
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Would them 30/15s not be anaerobic? I have done 3 weeks of polarised so I’m only new to it. Doing 2×20 min threshold and 4×8min @ 90% max HR along with the low zone 1 stuff so hoping for an improvement over time.
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They are performed at vO2max wattage, so no. They idea is to keep the HR in that 90% of HRM zone w/o going anaerobic. That’s the idea anyway.
Please report back. I’m curious how this plan works for you. In terms of hitting your goals, compliance, etc.
I am returning to racing and structured training after a semi-break of several years during which I have been riding z2, sprints and occasional hard efforts.
My plan is to first build the aerobic engine via a roughly polarized approach and introduce more specific stuff next winter-spring, meaning tempo, over unders etc. I am not too keen on mulling over the intensity side of the polarized discussion and tend to have my own go to workouts for this stage of my development and they are subject to change as improvement occurs. The point is just to make sure I do as much z1-z2 as possible to build the engine. Building capacity utilization is the point of specificity later on.
In so doing I follow roughly the framework proposed by Jan Olbrecht who quite strictly differentiates capacity workouts from utilization or power as he calls them. While i do not swear by this distinction i do find it a useful guideline.
At the moment I try to just collect 8-12hrs a week with two hard sessions per week, one of which is a long ride plus efforts at the end. Usually three day blocks guide mmy thinking rather than a weekly schedule though.
This spring I have seen very good improvements by just using 30-45sec all out efforts for vo2 development, and I usually do 6-10 per session with 3min recovery. Olbrecht mentions these in the That triathlon show podcast he did last fall ( Training structure, periodisation and the science of winning with Jan Olbrecht, PhD | EP#198). Apart from the vo2 component there is a neuromuscular low hanging fruit up for grabs for me as well, for riding full gas for that long tends to weed out inefficiencies in the pedal stroke and its been a while i turned the cranks in anger. I usually do these in a slight downhill to make them a bit harder neuromuscularly. I lose some watts but find that this way the gains translate to all my riding, while going uphill is already a relatively easy situation to produce power in. I pay strict attention to glute engagement and try to pedal by extending the hip as much as by extending the knee. This is a challenging workout but nothing compared to 5x5, 4x8 or 3x13(30-15) for instance.
The long ride efforts have been medium intervals to challenge the muscles, such as two sprints into 15min “tempo” just above lt1 with low cadence done a couple times. Usually there has been a hr cap of 80-85%. Stole this from Cusick webinar.
All said, low-mid z2 power has gone up 40w since february. Come to think of it, the gains are probably mostly driven by the z2 riding while the short hard efforts are in low enough volume so as to not ruin everything… 
Sounds good, The short intervals are interesting. So you do 30secs all out and then a 3 min rest( repeat 10 times) so these are a lot different to the 30/15 intervals as the 30/15 are just up to vo2. Can you elaborate as to what the 30secs all out give in regards to the 30/15 vo2.
Yes, 6 to 10 reps. Also 45sec is a different beast.
Per olbrecht, going way above power at vo2max (i know, a contestable construct) will activate mitochondria in both types of fast twitch fibres and thus drive adaptations in them. I guess the implication is that lower intensity would not do that to the same extent. In the book “Science of winning” olbrecht cites research on this topic by Dudley et al from the 80s to support the point. Cannot comment on that, really, but not entirely convinced. More modern sprint interval research has argued along a bit similar lines, eg. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/44696155_Mitochondrial_gene_expression_in_elite_cyclists_Effects_of_high-intensity_interval_exercise
Experience wise I just find these easier to recover from than 30/15s, which I also respond very well to. It is all about low hanging fruit at the moment and these efforts fit the bill. As for gains, I mentioned the neuromuscular gain, which just stands for generally feeling strong and tuned in while riding. 30/15s do not induce it similarly. (I have a history of knee injuries so pay close attention to muscle recruitment, fluidity, and the feel of things).
This presentation by a Jumbo visma coach might be of interest to participants of the thread. It too operates with the capacity/power framework, though the short intervals discussed there are a bit longer than what i described: Webinar: How to use the metabolic profile in INSCYD to create better training programs by INSCYD
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Can I ask why your endurance rides are at an intensity of 0.61 IF?
Seiler claims that roughly speaking the sweetspot for z1 in the polarized model is circa. 0.78
Dr. Seiler also said that POL SS was not necessarily a perfect spot for everyone.
Most recommended time is often below that, and is heavily based on planned duration. It’s better to be too easy in POL Z1 than too hard or borderline.
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Ah okay, thanks. I was just wondering.
Is there any chance that we get a proper polarized program on TR?
That would be useful for long triathlon or grandfondo.
By the way have you ever tried to count the time in zone for each TR program?
At risk of being difficult, I think noodling around at a random easy wattage or random too hard wattage doesn’t do much.
I much prefer a target. I choose to do my non-VO2 and non-threshold days at LT1 As defined by lactate test. After several months, a steady diet of 1 VO2 day, 1 threshold day and 3-4 days of extended LT1 work each weeks has produced a nice right shift in lactate curve.
But numbers be dammed, I feel great on the bike when actually riding and am going longer and stronger which was my objective.
I think Polarized, if done this way, is a nice approach to increase TTE. I’ve not been chasing ftp gains but am due to test soon as part of my program.
N=1 your results may differ etc etc
TL/DR Two hard days a week plus a long weekend ride and am very happy with results. Don’t over complicate it 
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- Based on Nate’s comments in a couple of these POL threads, I am guessing that is unlikely.
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@mcneese.chad gave a solid reply, but I’ll also add that I don’t want to build any fatigue on these back to back endurance days that would jeopardize my freshness for my next interval session.
How many hours/week are you training?
7-9 hours per week on bike (5-6 rides)
1.5-2 hours strength sessions in gym (2 sessions per week)
5-7 days a week Core work (about ten min per session)
Here is a typical week:
Monday - Gym (maybe 30 min TR Recess to warm up)
Tuesday - VO2max (60-90 min total ride time)
Wednesday - Hour easy, will include 30-45 min purposefully at LT1)
Thursday - 60-90min SST/Threshold Usually this is a longer interval at 85-90% FTP; 45-60 min.
Friday - Gym and a spin (not exceeding LT1 power)
Saturday - 90-120 min ride. Typically an hour of power at 90-95%
Sunday - 2-3 hours with a lot of time in that LT1 zone
I make Tuesdays hard. That is VO2 interval day. Thursday and Saturday are not about killer FTP intervals, but more about longer durations in the “pretty hard zone”. Wed and Fri are recovery type days but with a focus on time in that LT1 area. Sunday is my long ride. Might be road, might be dirt.
That is a pretty basic program structure. If I didn’t work full time I’d switch to a ten day structure and increase time on the bike to about 15 hours. But for now, seven day structure is good.
I can’t argue if this is Polarized or Pyramidal or something else. But it lives into the couple days hard per week concept and making those days count. With that basic structure and keeping a bunch of time around LT1 it is working pretty well.
I don’t count or track the Core time. Its just something to do almost every day
Any mountain bikers or crit racers following this polarized approach? Curious what your experience has been when you got back outside after a few months indoor? Do you feel like even with a higher FTP you’ve lost a little punch? (Maybe it’s the nature of the 4x8’s I was doing?)
I’ve been following the polarized approach and have had great results however one thing stood out to me once getting on the trails. The rolling nature of the terrain seems to put you in that medium/hard zone that polarized seems to avoid. (maybe I’m looking at this wrong) In short polarized rides seem to either fall in the IF range of .65ish +/-.05 or .92+/-.02. Where as a trail ride commonly results in a .84(sweetspotish) if unchecked. Anyone else notice the pop/punch isn’t quite there in these circumstances? Any suggestions??
You are getting to my issue with trying to use polarized outside of a vo2max block. The polarized grey zone includes sweet spot, tempo, and even threshold. In my experience all of those are required to build strength endurance - the ability to push the pedals hard for long periods of time. I really think polarized is better utilized as a vo2max booster block, after doing a sweet spot build.
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That’s exactly what I have seen in Dan Lorang / TCC Tri Plans.
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