Polarized Training Workouts & Experiences (80/20)

I really like Rattlesnake. I’ve done it a couple of times and my compliance is improving. I tend to tweak the intensity level if I feel like my HR/RPE is becoming unsustainable. I also like the fact that as difficult as it is, it passes fairly quickly. It’s almost like your in the middle of a battle and you don’t have the time or mental capacity to be aware of how long is left.

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You should give Ronnestad 30/15s a crack

What’s the difference?

Rattlesnake is similar to the hard-start version as described here: Prescribing VO2max – Spare Cycles

Also, I’m not going any where near >40mins of VO2 in a single workout.

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Not according to some analysis:

Unless I’m mistaken it’s an argument about a study? Not that Rønnestad’s 30/15s are completely worthless?
I’m looking for a hard workout that I can sprinkle amongst my easier rides. If I can wake up on a Tuesday and look forward to doing Rattlesnake, then I’ve won half the battle. I also feel absolutely amazing afterwards too.
Is it the most effective workout I could possible do? Probably not. Will it still elicit some positive adaptations? Probably. I’m fine with that.

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Most definitely. The analysis of the 30/15 protocol is that it’s probably not the most effective way to build vO2max, however, it’s definitely not a worthless workout. I would think that even @empiricalcycling would acknowledge that.

It’s interesting watching this discussion and how it keeps jumping back and forth. 2 months ago the 30/15’s were king. Now it’s longer vo2 intervals and 30/15’s are viewed as trash. I’ll continue to enjoy this thread with my :popcorn:.

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Us amateurs love to latch on to anything an informed individual says, right, wrong or otherwise. For what it’s worth, I’ve had my best season thus far incorporating both 30/15 (and 30/30’s) along with old-school 5-min intervals to my vO2 workout repertoire.

I think Kolie of @empiricalcycling makes a really strong case though for the physiological stimulus we’re after for driving vO2max and why the HIIT style 30/15’s might not be optimal. I’m definitely going to consider all of the above. I do think 30/15’s have a definite place in my workout library as primarily a CX racer, but I’m always open to learning and adopting new ways of thinking/training.

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I agree with you, and myself :slight_smile: I give my athletes intermittent work all the time, just not to improve vo2max. I like to assign those intervals more based on motor unit recruitment, buffering, neural, contractile, and specific race needs.

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I hear ya. I’m actually liking the turn the discussion has taken since I like and seem to perform the longer hard start intervals better. And the difference between the two that @empiricalcycling has mentioned makes a lot of sense in my mind and will be useful in the future. Prior to this discussion I never heard anyone actually discuss what the differences are, just which they thought was better.

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As I just mentioned in that thread about the podcast in particular, I think that it’s important to look under the hood of vo2max improvements. It’s what all the last few podcasts have been about. If anyone’s happy with their improvements doing 30/15s, or whatever else, that’s alright.

But the popularity of the 2020 Ronnestad study always made me cringe knowing it was on a shaky foundation, and I felt bad that most folks didn’t seem to understand that, or have better information when making training decisions. It showed those 30/15s are better compared to those 5min intervals at that time of year for those athletes, but not all continuous intervals, which is how the discussion in the study seemed to frame it, and definitely how it’s usually been interpreted in discussion here in the trenches.

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Actually 40/20 is where it’s at. 30/15…not so much. :wink:

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I like to assign [intermittent] intervals more based on motor unit recruitment…

As an n=1, I find the high RMP 30/15 et al workouts really feel like my entire leg-glute-hip chain is delivering/developing “connective” power, much more so than slogging out a quad-busting 5min interval.

Apart from that, I do think Coach Chad’s use of intermittent intervals as an entry/build-up to longer work is reasonable. So they might not be the most effect workout, but probably very effective in getting people to actually do VO2max work.

I’m yet to listen

I remember doing a “WTF” when I read it after seeing the power at which the 5-minute intervals were performed at. So thanks for illuminating that, but mostly thanks for providing a great deal of insight and context around the preload and how cadence can achieve a greater amount. To me that’s the takeaway.

Feel free to answer or not (you’ve already been insanely generous with your information), given that %HRmax and absolute power are not super useful metrics when evaluating whether or not we’re truly working at vO2max, is breathing or respiration rate the best indicator? Also, what happens to our vO2max interval(s) if we go too hard and end up anaerobic?

For the first question, effort and breathing are my go-to for figuring out if you’re doing it right. For the latter, we’ll put that in the listener Qs episode next since I’m sure a lot of folks are wondering that. It dovetails nicely with another question we got.

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For those of you that have done a Polarized block, how long was it and what type of training did you move to next? Back to Sweet Spot? Something else?

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Only just started a polarized approach and really enjoying the workout structure. For me after I finish my 12 week block of mostly Z1 or Z3 (3 Zone Model) I plan to do 4 weeks of SSB before jumping back into another polarized block with different Vo2 workout progressions. Similar to your thinking I am unsure where to go and what to do next? Could you just keep retesting and repeat the cycle?

My 2 hard workouts a week looked like this;
Block 1 (3 weeks) = 4x6mins @106% + 2x30/15s (13reps) @130%
Block 2 (3 weeks) = 4x7mins @106% + 3x30/15s (13reps) @130%
Block 3 (3 weeks) = 4x8mins @106% + 4x30/15s (13reps) @130%

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