This thread is a home for discussing specific Polarized training workouts and experiences with them. Workouts Here are a few TrainerRoad workouts that may work for this context. Many are not exact matches to the Dr. Seiler info, but they may be useful for this method. 4x4-minute workouts: Ainslie -4: intervals at 105% FTP with 4-minute recoveries. Mount Alyeska -1: intervals at 105-109% FTP with 4-minute recoveries. Vandever -1: intervals at 112-114% FTP with 4-minute recoveries. 4x6-minute workouts: Elephants -2: intervals at 108% FTP with 3-minute recoveries. Jobs -1: intervals at 105% FTP with with 4-minute recoveries. This also has several more variations with different recovery duration. Denali +1: intervals at 110-112% FTP with 6-minute recoveries. 4x7-minute workouts: Washington: intervals at 105% FTP with 3-minute recoveries. This also has several more variations with different interval count and recovery duration. Elephants -1: intervals at 108% FTP with 5-minute recoveries. 4x8-minute workouts: Dicks -2: intervals at 105% FTP with 3-minute recoveries. Jacks +1: intervals at 105% FTP with 4-minute recoveries. Raymond +6: intervals at 108% FTP with 5-minute recoveries. 4x10-minute workouts: Black Hawk -4: intervals at 105% FTP with 5-minute recoveries. This also has several more variations with different recovery duration. References Polarized Training Discussion (Fast Talk podcast & Flo Cycling podcast) Quality over Quantity vs. 80/20 (or Chad vs. Matt ;)) Fast Talk, ep. 68: The Big Picture Polarized Training with Stephen Seiler, PhD | EP#177 That Triathlon Show Seiler’s 8-minute intervals (Polarized) My Polarized Training Experience (Chad McNeese & others)

Don’t forget the thread where we’re desperately trying to solve the 4x8min workout conundrum. [image] Seiler’s 8-minute intervals (Polarized) Training Bit of an ambiguous question but who has done the 8 mins @ 108% - 2 mins reco - repeat *4? How would you rate it in terms of RPE? I’m wondering if I should start with the 4 min intervals and work up over a few weeks or just jump in the deep end. Cheers in advance.

Thanks. I missed it while searching because it lacked “Polarized” in the thread name and tag (both of which I just added). I added it as a link to the references above.

For workouts, I think on the thread linked above, we worked out that Dicks -2 was probably the closest to a Seiler 4x8 session in the workout library. 105% of ramp test FTP for the intervals is almost certainly tougher than Seiler’s prescription (more like 105% of 60min power), but to compensate, you get a 3 minutes rest between them instead of Seiler’s 2. To create an even closer approximation of Seiler’s session, I would open Dicks -2 in workout creator, reduce the rest intervals to 2 minutes, but also reduce the work interval intensity to 103% (of ramp test FTP). (The ultimate aim is to end interval 1 at about 88-9% maxHR, interval 2 at 90-91, interval 3 at 92-93, and interval 4 at 94-95, so you might need to do some on-the-fly intensity adjusting to get there.)

If you’ve listened to the 3 Fast Talk, the The Triathlon Show and the Flo podcasts like I have over and over and over there a few major points to take from them. You have to have an idea of your HRpeak for cycling to properly gauge the sessions You have to realize that he [Dr. Seiler] does not prescribe sessions at a precise intensity. Moreover he gives guidance and is keen to let the individual discover how to pitch their own sessions. 4x8-minutes is not set in stone. It could easily be 5x7, 6x7, 5x8, etc. It’s very much about Duration x Intensity with an ideal LT3 [Zone 3, POL?] session between 30 and 40 minutes, possibly as much as 50 minutes eventually. It’s great that this sub-section has been created by the way.

Don’t forget the micro intervals: 30/30, 30/15 etc , Example would be: 3 series 10-13x 30/15 Rønnestad promote it, but Seiler seem not so much convinced. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/259556129_Short_intervals_induce_superior_training_adaptations_compared_with_long_intervals_in_cyclists_-_An_effort-matched_approach For me is my bread and butter workout most of the year, but I’m a CX guy

Having read a lot here and elsewhere and listened to a few of Seiler’s interviews, I’m still left with a question: At what point of the training “cycle” (base, build etc) should we do polarized? Or is it the whole time? Since I don’t have a racing season and my goal is a gran fondo in May next year, I was thinking of doing it until September and then start the whole TR program again. Does it make sense? Thanks S

I am interested to see someone take this on for up to 6 months and see how they improved over the start of it. I am still not convinced this would be better than training to what your needs are for your style of racing. I can only relate to mtb but the needs for a marathon racer with big climbs is different for the XC racer that needs short punchy bursts. Different engines. I am sure road racers have the same issue here as well as triathletes. I am not knocking it at all because I have very limited knowledge in all this but would love to see someone take this on…For all our sakes🤯

[image] mike091979: I can only relate to mtb but the needs for a marathon racer with big climbs is different for the XC racer that needs short punchy bursts. Different engines. They’re probably not as different as you think which is basically what Seiler said in the last Fast Talk podcast. Look at those competing at the pointy end in events like Cape Epic - Christoph Sauser, Nino Schurter, Jaroslav Kulhavy, Manuel Fumic, Henrique Avancini, etc and you can see one thing that they all have in common - they’re all exceptional XCO racers. It’s also worth noting that this year’s winner of DK200, Colin Strickland, is a guy who ‘specialises in Criteriums and Gravel’ and has also been a Texas State CX champion. Mike

But Colin’s training in preparation for DK200 was far from crit specific. Lots of tempo grinding over many hours. No man’s land, grey zone, happy hard. Hardcore polarists would shudder.

[image] sryke: Hardcore polarists would shudder. LOL, nah. Proper event prep leads to peppering and even more dramatic shifts in workouts that differ from the main 80/20 direction, and are far more tailored to the demands of the event.

Polarized Training Workouts & Experiences (80/20)

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martinheadon June 19, 2019, 3:31pm 2

Don’t forget the thread where we’re desperately trying to solve the 4x8min workout conundrum.

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