keep in mind, zone1 polarized is zones 1 and 2 by TR’s standards. That’s up to around 235 watts for me. Yes, still hard to not stomp up that little kicker, but not infeasible to ride everything on a mountain bike trail at 235 watts or less.
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Not my trails. We have lots of short steep inclines. If you don’t hit them, you’re walking up. Plus, we have lots of twists and turns that require coasting.
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its definitely more challenging, perhaps impossible on certain climbs. Not sure the coasting is a problem, just won’t help much. Overall, I think you can still get the same effect. Spiking up to 300watts or something for a short climb probably wouldn’t negate the effect assuming you drop back down at the top.
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I disagree, but now we’re back to the “what is polarized” discussion, and I’m spent on that one. 
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I think the only point I have is, regardless of protocol, you have to use what you have. Just like Rocky punching slabs of frozen cows, if all he has is a mountain bike trail, then he can get something at least resembling polarized training from it if he tries. Might not be ideal.
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My original questions wasn’t really adressed here, but ok. I’ve decided to skip the tuesday 45 min pol Z1 ride, as i’m on the bike in the evening for 3,5 hours anyway, going mostly easy.
I just looked at the polarized plans and noticed there have been changes made to the workouts included compared to a week or 2 ago. Curious to see if it will be discussed soon on the podcast.
I just started a polarized style training plan. But will be using train now for the VO2 type workouts, it will be a fun experiment at the beginning of the year. I don’t plan to really be at peak until october, because then #crossiscoming. Also looking forward to my “training camp” in 3 weeks in the south of Spain
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I think you’re seeing different workouts in the plans simply because with AT when you click on a plan it automativally gets tailored to your PLs. I’d bet that if both you and I looked at the exact same plan right now we’d see very different workouts suggested simply because of our training history - thats certainly happening with the standard plans and I suspect with Pol as well.
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oh… 
That would make sense though, pretty darn cool…“the machine”
Yup, we confirmed with TR that you are seeing tailored training plans based on your current Progression Levels when you view them.
Your version is not likely to match any other person’s unless you have identical PLs.
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That is awesome. Thank for the info “not coach” Chad 
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another bump for this thread. Still waiting for a new Polarized edition of the podcast.
Has anybody found a way to find the VT1/ LT1 / Aerobic threshold somewhat accurately with a TR workout?
I’m thinking a step test with longer intervals in the endurance to tempo zones and tracking heartrate?
I have done ramp tests in a cycling lab in the past where it was calculated, also taking bood lactate measurements and having 6 minute ramps of 30 watt.
Or is using the Karvonen farmula sufficient to get close enough?
Maybe see the LT and LT2 thread if you havent already.
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Ha ha, makes me want to have a go at it!
I’m going to swap to the polarized plan, because it enables me to do most of the z2 workouts outside. Also I’m training for endurance and ultra endurance events in the summer, and need more miles at a lower intensity, while still keeping the high intensity in there, (like TUCO) 
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I follow HV plans and swap out Sundays for long z2 and weather depending MTB on Saturdays. This leaves structured intensity indoors on Tues/Thurs. Recovery rides Wednesday and Friday outdoors as well as the weekends and it works out really well. I’m training for Ultras as well, doing five MTB 100s this year as part of the NUE Series.
I’m not fully up to date on the podcasts, but has Jonathan ever given an update on his attempt at the POL plans? I remember hearing he was going to give it a try.
I’ve used them for different phases over the last ~two years with results that weren’t astounding but also not bad in any way, but my personal experience is not swaying our analysis of the effectiveness of a strict 80/20 implementation.
We’ve been analyzing these all along and plan to share data on their effectiveness in the future. Lack of adherence was a major block in getting reliable data last year, but with more data this year we hope to resolve that.
Keeping everything in perspective, there is a VERY small amount of research out there looking into the effectiveness of polarized training, and there isn’t a large and well-structured data pool to be able to effectively analyze its effectiveness, so this effort on our end is unprecedented in many ways. We want to make sure we do it right.
On that note, I wanted to mention something about sharing data on polarized plans. One thing I’ve learned particularly over the past few years as we’ve been testing and iterating on AT is how much more complicated data-sharing is than it seems on face value. It’s very easy to take a cursory glance at data and confuse it with being a comprehensive representation.
Additionally, there’s plenty of opportunity to slice the data in whichever way confirms a narrative or bias. We have systems of checks and balances with fantastic people in place to make sure we never make that mistake. I’m sure our approach would infuriate a lot of marketers, but we aren’t everybody else. Integrity is everything to us, because if athletes can’t trust us, there’s no reason for them to sign up.
So we plan to share data on these plans in the future, but we will do that once we have solid data that is responsibly pulled and interpreted.
Hope that helps provide insight for y’all.
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Thanks Jonathan, really appreciate you jumping in with a comprehensive reply and the additional info on data sharing.
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Random question from a POL-user: Is there a reason why some of the workouts (particularly the VO2Max workouts) have extremely long cooldowns? Veladero, for example, has a 27 minute cooldown at 50% FTP.
I use the mid-volume POL to get a reasonable-looking progression of VO2Max and Threshold weekday workouts. I dump all my endurance work into the weekend.
I’d be curious about this too. My guess is the added time was to hit the 80/20 split of easy/hard.
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Hi Jonathan,
Have been looking for evidence about Trainerroad’s plans. The website advertises with ‘science-based planning, training and analysis tools to increase your performance’ but cannot find the references. Your comment seems to imply that there is a very small amount of research for polarized training and a convincing volume of research for TR’s other training plans.