So how do you propose getting reasonable VO2 intensities?
Iāve heard 5 or 6 min power. When Iām fit, my 5 or 6 min power is roughly 120% of ftp. Right now it is lower than that.
You could use something like a critical power chart to help set intensity for VO2max intervals, similar to what @bbarrera said.
Go as hard as you think you can go for the # of intervals prescribed. Whatever gets you to gasping for air and creating that desired oxygen debt.
Veronique Billat used a 6min TT to establish vVo2 (velocity@Vo2 max).
Jack Daniels used 3000m TT to establish VO2 interval pace
On the Wattage forum, Coggan has said 12 min max effort.
If you want to do a bunch of 4min intervals on 2min rest, Iād say choose the minimal intensity that will elicit and sustain VO2 over the interval set.
For people who have it, WKO4ās PDC, iLevels, and Optimized Intervals would be a good starting point, assuming youāve done some maximal efforts in the 3-10 minute range to fill out the PDC curve.
Sufferfestās 4DP test would be better than just an FTP test for setting VO2Max intensity.
Or really, even just a 5-minute all-out effort should give you a bit of an idea what youāre capable of, then adjust a bit up/down from there based on the interval duration and # of repeats.
Once upon a time, before power meters, spouses, jobs, and children, we did long relatively slow soul rides in the mountains with the occasionally friendly 10min attack to hurt our friends. We rode flat roads at conversational pace for hours. We rode a blistering group ride on Wednesday night and buried ourselves to not get dropped by local pros. We spent 15hrs/week on the bike, mostly at lower heart rates and spent a few precious hours totally pinned. We got really fast. This was good.
Now we have jobs, kids, spouses, power meters and smart trainers. We ride indoors to make the most of every moment of training. We ride purposefully hard a couple days a week. We ride uncomfortably hard a couple more days. We ride easy and watch movies on the last two. We spent 6-10hrs on the bike. Itās still good. Weāre still pretty fast.
The end.
If training tired muscles is beneficial shouldnt we be taking a different approach in how to train?
I think the issue is if muscles are tiredā¦I dont see how you will get more power out of themā¦you may get more endurance from training a tired muscle. I think the risk is you mess up form and hurt something.
#oldskooltraining 
Your muscles having low energy stores is part of what starts a signaling cascade inside the cell to adapt.
This can be done through long workouts, doubles, and fasted workouts. On one hand seiler says that the long rides are necessary but there are a lot of very fit middle distance runners who get more of their volume through doubles.
If you are replying on my answer, I was not talking about CP but FTP. The TTE (WKO4) is coupled to mFTP. You can work on raising mFTP or TTE but both on the same time is difficult. If your most important race are long steady climbs, than a large TTE is important. If you are doing crits, I would switch fasted to VO2max blocks
I did 3 weeks of fasted doubles in December. Nearing the end of the 3rd week I had a noticeable increase in fitness. First time Iāve done this so itās 100% anecdotal but it didnāt seem to have any ill effects (other than getting out of bed earlier).
it might also be done by āfront-loadingā a ~3hr ride. I donāt have the time for 4-5 hour rides on the weekends, but doing a the first hour of a 3hr ride as SST has a similar effect on muscle oxygenation (from what the Humon says ā so take that for what it is/isnāt worth) as the last hour of a 4hr steady distance ride. Iāve also done something like a 5 x 4 VO2 duing the first hour, then 2 hrs steady, and seen similar oxygenation rates. So, maybe the āhard first hourā is doing enough to get the cellular signaling during hour 3, or maybe Iām drawing the wrong conclusions.
Stacking one of the high intensity days into the first half of a long-ish day may or may not be a good strategy, if you donāt have the big time block for the long ride.
I aim for 3 doubles a weekā¦ of course the 2nd one is a different sport. Iād argue there isnāt something magical about the long ride/run, but it is for event specificity mostly. Hereās Mo Farahās training week, heās doing a 2-2.5 hour run. Only really the ultramarathon guys/gals are doing the 3-4 hour runs, however Mo is doing over 100 miles /week.
Pro cycling events are typically all about the stage events, so there is a huge amount of specificity for spending some long days in the saddle.
To me, getting in long rides are icing on the cake. Iāll be doing more this year than in previous years since iāll be doing an event with a predicted finishing time >5 hours, but that race is not until September, one of those races they talk about on the podcast as a good one to do after having a good race season under your belt.
Seller actually said take your resting HR then add 0.6 x max HR. So for you it would be 40+(0.6x205) =163. Not much difference but worth pointing out for accuracy. For me 45 yo guy, it is 40+ (0.6 x183) = 126
I donāt believe that as your true max HR, that sounds more like a HR strap with some interference. Could be right but that would be very unusual
@calleking is correct. Seiler takes heartrate as percentages of the heartrate range:
0.6 x (HRmax - HRrest) + HRrest would be 60% HRmax.
Mike
I suppose the very last thing we need is yet another gadget, but during the few weeks that Iāve been training with the Humon (no, I am not getting compensated for āpubbingā it on forums), I can see some of the fuzziness about nailing down that low intensity threshold that Seiler has mentioned. Yes, he posits 60% of HRR, but also says in the Flo podcast that it could be higher, 65% of HRR or more, or that it could be less than 60% of HRR ā it all depends on individual physiology.
I think that, as the SMO2 sensor technology gets more affordable (it would not surprise me to see them under 200 dollars in a few years) that using that gadget in the field to establish LIT is where we will go. The Humon folks have a color-coded data field for Garmins, and if you are āin the green,ā youāre in a steady state. Now, you take that with some salt ā in the first two minutes of a VO2 interval, you may be āin the green,ā but obviously 400w is not sustainable for two hours. A āgreenā intensity for 2hrs with a lower PE is pretty clearly a low intensity, Seiler Zone 1 effort, though.
Iāve seen that some days, that on many days, 80% of FTP has me at 65% of HRR, and āin the greenā the whole time. That does not mean it would be that case every day, or that every rider would be able to do 80% FTP and have it be in Seilerās Zone 1. And, as he says in the podcast, āthatās why we testā and āif it was that easy, you wouldnāt need me [a physiologist].ā
For folks who want to go the polarized route, Iād suggest an SMO2 sensor. Not a bad way of real-time monitoring what your AeT/LIT isā¦
how well does the Humon āgreen zoneā correlate with ānose breathingā? Ever paid attention to it? I mean, nose breathing is free. Humon is >300ā¬ over here. If one was only after the AeT/LIT estimate, nose breathing would be the more cost effective (and proven) method.
But I know, we all love our gadgets. Iām on the fence for this Humon as well. But I already got burned with the BSX, canāt really justify the expense.
Year-round allergies and a twice-deviated septum: Iām mouth-breathing from the moment I get my bibs on.
But, you raise a good point ā there are certainly other measures of AeT.
Instead of nose breathing Iāve heard it defined as the āintensity at which you take first feel the need to take an extra deep breath of airā test Polarized Training Discussion (Fast Talk podcast & Flo Cycling podcast) - #278 by christhornham
for me its roughly:
- 50-60% ftp
- 50-60% of heart rate range formula 0.5 x (HRmax - HRrest) + HRrest
- 65-75% HRmax
Playing around with my own workouts, I have custom versions of Baxter, Colosseum, and Perkins with reduced intensity to better align with the 50-60% ftp estimate above.