-
Is it really supposed to say that 4 min @ 102 % is hard. How do you then cope with 16 min?
-
After reading your post I’d guess 4 min @ 110%, 16 min @ 102 % and 8 min @ something between?
-
No intervals > 110%? Why?
Best regards
Joel
Yes, I bought a lactate plus meter and ran the test. You can see my results here: Chris Thornham Blood Lactate 05/26/18 - Google Sheets
My power numbers have changed since then, but HR numbers are likely similar. I’ll be retesting at UNLV likley in the next few months.
2 Likes
Chris,
Thanks for sharing, to my eyes it looks like HR of 127 and above was the breaking point where lactate starts climbing.
Brian
edit: or even more conservatively at 114bpm, but there is such a slight rise from 114 to 126 that I’m not sure. And of course I’m not an exercise physiologist…
@christhornham while you’re here… any updates on FLO’s gravel wheelset?? 
-
I know 4 min @ 102% shouldn’t be hard, but personally I’ve found it to be challenging. Perhaps it’s because of the nature of the ramp test FTP estimate, or I’m not mentally there after years off of the bike. I can tell you I’m hitting some really high heart rates during those efforts though.
-
That was my original thought as well, but in practice, it hasn’t worked out that way for me.
-
You certainly could, but Dr. Seiler says the best gains from his studies happen when intervals result in HRs between 87 and 92% of HRMax. So 4-minute intervals are in the 92% range, 8-minute intervals are in the 90% range, and 16-minute intervals are in the 87% range. In my experience, you don’t need efforts over 110% of FTP to hit those target HRs. I’ll add that I tried a 6 x 8 session right after an FTP test last week. I hit ~94% of HRMax on the third 8-minute interval and completely crapped out after that.
2 Likes
Seiler guessed around 129, so I’d guess your 127 estimate is right. I’d love for it to be 114—because I could go a lot easier—but riding outside would be tough!
1 Like
They are definitely cooking. No dates set yet, but they are on the way. Hoping first or second quarter '19.
Ha ha, especially on the mountain bike LOL. Interestingly the 127 HR puts your power at 180W, so it seems you could use ceiling of 180W provided that HR doesn’t drift up.
I’ve noticed that power can change on a day to day basis, so I always use HR. I’ve noticed over time that my power at LT1 HR is going up though. I averaged 200W for over an hour at a 125HR last week.
2 Likes
Thanks for chiming in, and those are awesome numbers! The Google Sheet says you did the lactate test on May 26, 2018, so you did the lactate test and the FTP test at effectively the same time? And per the podcast (and looking at the spreadsheet), your LT2 tested to be around 220W, with a ramp test FTP of 262W… right?
In other words, had you done sweet spot intervals (85+% of FTP, or 223+W), those intervals would all have been above LT2, not in Seiler’s zone 2. Continuing along, when you say intervals at 102-110% of FTP, is that based on the ramp test FTP, the lactate threshold test?
Everybody is different, my ftp right now is a smidge lower than your 250 at time of test. I’ve been able to do long rides at 165-170W with flat HR. My “all day climbing” HR is 135, and I use 135 as my target for long flat rides around Sacramento or on the 20 mile ride back home after a tough group ride in Folsom.
Yes the lacate test was done on May 26, 2018. You can see it in TR here: Log In to TrainerRoad
The first Ramp test was done at UNLV in a lab during a VO2Max study. That was May 28, 2018. The V02Max test protocol is pretty much identical to the TR Ramp test, so I used that as my FTP test.
My LT2 power was 220W and my FTP was 262W. So had I done 85% efforts then yes, those would have been out of my Z2, using power as the measure of intensity. That said, 85% efforts aren’t where the polarized method wants you during Z3 work. 102-110% of FTP appears to be a better calculation–but remember this is still an estimate. Measuring a % of HRMax might be a better way to define the intensity but, pacing intervals with HR is tough because of lag.
Finally, the 102-110% is based on my Ramp Test FTP results.
1 Like
That’s great! If I had to define the top of Z1 by feel, it’s the intensity where you first feel the need to take an extra, or deeper breath of air.
1 Like
Chris,
Really appreciate you dropping in and sharing, engineers and TR cyclists love data! Wish I had more to share back. Feeling inspired now to schedule a lactate test sometime next year with one of our local training companies, to test what I think I know to what is really going on.
Brian
1 Like
Glad to contribute. Looking forward to hearing your results.
2 Likes
Great stuff @christhornham. Thanks for sharing. Keep up the great podcast, makes my commute fly by.
2 Likes
which is one of the key points of doing traditional base and training in z1 (“raise the floor” before “raising the ceiling”).
Over 5.5 months, with 3.5 months all z1 / traditional base, you saw:
- LT1 power bump from 170 to 200
- ftp bump from 262 to 300
Nice. Roughly 6.5 hours a week if I’m following along (158 hours over 25 weeks). Curious if you saw any gains during 14 week intro “all z1” phase.
One thing I will do after finishing current 12+ weeks of sweet spot base is put another number on 2 hour power at flat HR, to see if power has gone up (as an estimate on SSB contribution to raising power at LT1).
1 Like
Yes, I did see an FTP increase during the 14 weeks of all Z1 work. I tested at 285W at the end of the 14 week Z1 phase.
1 Like
Did you have someone prick you or did you manage to do the test on your own? I guess if someone was only interested in LT1 such a test could be conducted alone.
By the way, looking at your lactate curve I’d say 2 and 4 mmol are probably not appropriate for you. Apologies for saying that but the curve indicates far lower thresholds. I know there are thousands of different ways to interprete lactate curves but those fixed thresholds at 2 and 4 mmol are probably the weakest.
Chris,
It would be fair to say that, for you, the ramp test is a very poor estimate of your LT2 and it’s good to see that you’ve taken a pragmatic approach to getting the Z3 intervals at the right level.
It does highlight a very important point about LT2 and the polarized model: it really isn’t that important to know what power at LT2 is! If you can go and ‘solve the equation’ for interval at 8 x 4 minutes, 4 x 8 minutes and a few more in between and make progress doing them on a week to week basis, you’ll be training above LT2, and that’s what’s important.
Mike
2 Likes