Why? I’d rather get advice from an actual coach, rather than a research physiologist that I’ve heard say cyclist train polarized when he knew they didn’t.
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I’m just being practical, why bother paying attention when I can do an hour of threshold and have almost zero decoupling? Seiler said that is a measure of LT1, should I use my FTP as LT1? Look, Seiler has some interesting studies on ‘best’ interval formats where best is defined from an intervention point-of-view. Beyond that I’d rather listen to cycling coaches. Versus a researcher that looks at high-level coached athletes and makes statements like “cyclists train polarized” and then takes heat and changes his position because he knows that is not true. Inigo San Millan is both exercise physiologist and a coach to pro teams, he is far more interesting from my point-of-view.
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Simply trying to point out the comedy of trying to use anything beyond “hard days hard, easy days easy.” Polarized the way Seiler originally defined it, well that polarized makes sense to me when doing a block of really hard full-gas vo2max work. Beyond that I don’t get polarized as originally defined, at least for cycling. Now if I was a cross country skier it starts to make more sense…
And to be honest, he is an above average communicator IMHO. Its just that he did a land grab with polarized, and enjoying his 15 minutes of fame. Somewhere I posted an article that Seiler wrote back in the 90s. Most of the talking points he uses now, he was using 20+ years ago.
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my impression is that many either consciously or unconsciously believe that highly precise targeting of either HR or power results in superior workouts and adaptations.
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That is true, regardless of the training mode in use. Seeing people complain about coming up short on an interval by 1w, or missing a second or two at the start of short/shorts are all signs similar to that obsession on data accuracy & precision.
I say that as a recovering over-analyzer, and now take things far more loose than when I thought I was doing things “perfectly” 
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The same current state. My first year was worrying about single watt difference. This year I was doing almost all the things more “by feel”. Fitness difference? I have to admit - no another 100W FTP increase 
Real difference? I think I understand myself a lot better, fintess increased and my mind is a lot happier:) Not to mention that when you better know how precise are pm or how your body is a little bit different every day you understand that being over-precise has no place in cycling. That is why we have zones not single power targets.
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So true…luckily I talked a couple into the benefits of 3-5hr z2 rides and once they read some of the literature, tried it for a couple of months and saw big gains, they are totally sold. I now have a great little group for enjoying long steady z2 rides several times a week and then we all smash ourselves however we feel like solo on other days 
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Yup, super common for the machismo and such to push group rides too hard.
Takes real discussion and education to get people on board. Some don’t and won’t care. But if you get some to get on board, it’s great.
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I’m so envious of this. I can’t pass on literature. The fact that they see me doing structured workouts is enough to get called a “nerd”. I think the problem is that these guys have busy lives and don’t make time to ride as much as I do so when they get the chance it’s an all out hammer fest.
I just can’t make it happen with my riding buddies. For whatever reason rides always go into that happy-hard zone regardless. It’s not even a machismo thing (sometimes it is), it’s just there’s a “boredom with riding endurance pace” so they just naturally push into Sweet Spot. I also think it has a lot to do with having zero understanding of the benefits of endurance paced rides.
I can’t tell you how many rides along gorgeous scenic routes have been ruined due to just riding too hard to enjoy the views.
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Their rides are fine, even great if that is what they want. As is sometimes the case, the issue here is people having different goals and objectives. Group rides are fun at times, but I find them frustrating as much or more often. Many reasons behind it, but that’s lead me to do more solo or very small groups of 4 or less, when we actually agree on what we want to do.
I’ve had moderate success on larger group rides, by simply stating my plan before we roll. I always say that anyone who likes my plan is welcome to join me. I stick to my plan (important as a “ride leader”), and I get a few takers that have similar goals or are just happy to adjust their plan and roll with me.
I don’t expect the entire group to change or follow me. They are free to smash each other and if I end up alone, that’s fine too. I know my goals and having anyone else along, even for part of the ride is gravy.
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What would Seiler propose for a LV?
TR don’t Update the Training Plans, don’t know why. Perhaps too much time spend for YouTube-Videos and Blabla and too less for the Software and Training itself?
The group ride thing doesn’t float my boat.
If I wanted to do a group ride I use Zwift. Good fun, but I always end up completely blown apart. Which is why I’m now very disciplined and stick to my TR training sessions 
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- Thats absolutely false.
They revise plans (via changes to workouts in called in them) and have done so for years. I don’t have time to search for it now, but there is even a thread on here that points to the changes in the plans.
I also fully expect them to update the POL plans as the see how people use them over time.
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Okay thanks for the heads up.
I understand. So the workouts are being updated.
Looking forward on the next POL update.
My first POL MV Training 6 weeks is finished this week 
I haven’t tried the POL training yet. I’m trying to finish up the Specialty Plan LV and finish in 3 weeks, and I will give it a try. Mentally for me is hard to keep riding tempo/threshold all the time on any SS plan. And also I kept feeling tired after the workout so I can’t do any free rides. All I do with the SS plan are focusing on recovery. I rarely ride any free ride during the week.
I know what you mean… Another group of long term cycling buddies is similar to what you describe. They just ride as a well drilled group with regular rotations on the front almost forcing people to ride 5 mins fairly hard for their turn and then rotating off again until they come back to do another turn. The only time they ease up is 2 mins after the first person blows up and then they all ride home in ‘limp mode’ This group will never listen or change and will only ride if the route guarantees a cake stop at 11am on the dot. It’s the way they do it and I just join them when I’m happy with that… It does mean less social weekday rides but I’m OK with that for a while.
Has any tried setting up / doing the LV plans as a T-W-TH structure and then freelancing the weekend?
Are you seeing gains at all? The benefit of a plan are not whether it feels hard or easy but whether it improves your real world cycling.
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, stand by and watch your fitness plummet on that. Late to the thread so may have been said already.
I’ve experimented with polarised in the past, probably never really gave it long enough tbh to fully gauge the effects but the thing which killed me was the boredom of the low level sessions.
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And I just don’t understand why the plans contain anything other than 4 x 8s when the Seiler study concluded that 4 x 8 was the most effective (out of them, 4 x 4 and 4 x 16 at the other intensity levels)
Personally I think if you’ve gone to the effort of researching and listening to what Seiler says about polarised you can so easily create your own plan.