So that’s what that is. I never looked closely. More clues to OBNDY’s identity!
TrainerRoad is doing it at scale, and I think the new platform is a major step in the right direction. I’ve used four different approaches to training (Stages spin classes + club rides, Carmichael Training Systems, TrainerRoad, and FasCat) and reached some conclusions which I’ve shared in various threads. Having six months experience with a coach, it is my personal opinion that good coaches have been training athletes without anchoring solely to FTP.
I don’t think that is antagonistic or toxic.
5 Likes
Too bad, you’ve offered a bunch to the discussion (not sarcastic, your replies here have been excellent). I don’t read the comment by @bbarrera as particularly sarcastic/condescending, he’s just making a point in his way. Don’t take it personally.
2 Likes
The first approach that I really understood was Carmichael Training System’s plans on Strava Premium. It uses FTP to anchor some but not all workouts. To be honest when starting out with TR I was puzzled with TR and Erg mode and use of FTP to anchor all workouts.
2 Likes
Trying out might be hard unless your coach has you following TR plans and the coach has been tweaking workouts. Or you give up coaching. Guess I would put it this way, a) if your coach is giving you TR like plans and making minor adjustments, and b) you are happy with TR plans, then c) its easy to try out and Adaptive Training will help you avoid falling into a fatigue hole. And given your experience with the ramp test, perhaps you can do a longer test. Guess we will see once it is more broadly available. From what I’ve heard this is going to be a really solid platform and greatly improve upon the current ‘self-coaching with TR’ approach.
2 Likes
No sure I’m following you. Just passing Leconte at a FTP of 290W requires more power for 20 minutes than a 20 minute FTP test at 260W FTP and you do it three times
Looked at another way Leconte at 290W FTP is a normalized power of 261 for 90 minutes which can’t be performed by someone with a 260FTP
If you are super passing then the numbers are even more skewed
Am I missing something?
1 Like
Ignore his 30 watt drop. His power didn’t drop, he just changed testing protocols. So the issue isn’t that he now has a 260 watt FTP. The issue is that he wasn’t good at testing relative to his threshhold and above threshhold performance. Therefore, the “objective” testing may have difficulty pinpointing his level and all I’m saying is the “subjective” surveys will him guide the ML. He’s worried that if he tests and spits out an underperforming FTP, but then he superpasses hard workouts, that the ML will ramp him up in difficulty and he will eventually crack. I’m saying, his response to the survey will help calm the adaptive piece down. If it’s hard, he can say it’s hard, and it should back off.
And also, it will probably be able to tell he was struggling and back off on it’s own.
1 Like
Yes, I would wait and see how things play out. If you can continue to pay a coach… IMO that is always the number one choice
2 Likes
I was just another wannabe living the 12k dream, but every dog has their day.
1 Like
Back to the original question - I would argue your concerns are less valid now. In theory, the entire point of adaptive training is to be able to adapt training for people in situations such as this.
I’m beginning to wonder if ERG mode has something to do with my RPE differences. If I think back to when I was doing workouts like Eclipse on ERG, I remember my mind wandering and I’d spend a good time staring at my stem. but since I’ve been with my coach, I’ve been on resistance mode only and I absolutely cannot lose focus when doing anything at threshold or above.
My coach’s plans and workouts are not like TR. It’s definitely more polarized than TR with 3 hard workouts during the week, a couple short z1 recovery rides, and a long z2 endurance ride during the weekend. In total I’m on the bike 10+ hours a week which would put my in the “high volume” protocols, but I would die if I did 5+ hard workouts a week :P.
I’d probably have to put my coach aside and just do TR’s AT protocols for at least 6 months to see how I do.
TR is coming out with a polarized plan, so if you are happy with a more polarized approach then maybe wait and see? Or if those 3 hard workouts look like a LV plan you could just add to it. I’m really happy with my coach and our working relationship, and plan to continue. In parallel I use WKO for analysis, and will be interested to see how my training is perceived by TrainerRoad.
1 Like
Thanks for the reply. I think that’s the issue right there, I was basically riding at threshold on Eclipse. When I tried to go over that with the 20-minute FTP test, I exploded. Since moving to a coach, I was able to ride at my FTP at the time (278 watts a couple months ago) for an hour. The point being that the ramp test overestimated my FTP and SST workouts were actually threshold workouts.
That being said, I’m really hoping the surveys will do their job to tailor the exercises to the individuals.
I don’t know how much you increased the intensity to super-pass Leconte but if you pushed it 5% then your FTP was at least 290W
One of the benefits of adaptive training is that all the power levels will be treated individually. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses relative to their ramp test derived FTP ( or other protocol)
The new system isn’t rolled out yet but looks very promising. The anecdotal comments on using the new system were really encouraging. I can hardly wait to experience it.
1 Like
It was 5%, looking back on the effort it was on the last interval only. Guess hindsight isn’t 20/20 for me :P.