Overtraining wall

[MI-XC]

@daturaman

I stopped TR for a couple of months and then gradually worked my way back in. I don’t do plans, just one workout a week. It’s plenty for me on top of my other activities and, if anything, I’m fitter than I was during the build phase. My FTP is actually slightly higher.

Of course you are, your were completely over reaching/training, under recovered and holding on to plenty of fatigue. The Build phase is intense and it assumes those are your ONLY workouts/exercise. TR designs the plans in that matter. It was you who added a bunch of stress on top of that, made no TR plan adjustments, then wondered why your fitness spiraled down. Your fault was not TR, it was everything else. No one would recommend to do what you did.

If you are adding to a TR plan, you must make adjustments to your workouts, recovery and rest days. You have to listen to your body and not blindly follow a plan because it’s the next workout. This is discussed over and over again on the podcast, in articles and in this forum. You must coach yourself and recognize all the red flags in your training. If you can’t do it yourself, find yourself a coach.

”You can’t over train, you can only under recover.”

[Fasterstronger]

@llmonty

Bad sleep, anxious, no sex drive, withdrawn, bad thoughts (just thoughts).

Can you speak to someone? In all seriousness - take a step back from things for a moment and just take time to be good to yourself. I don’t want to sound dramatic - just sending you a note of concern and hope that you are able to speak with someone - a friend, partner, therapist. Don’t let those bad thoughts take hold of you.

[DaveWh]

@batwood14

I’m 45, and given my age I’m starting to think about some sort of polarized approach to ensure this doesn’t keep happening.

This is me also. Although I’ve migrated to more of a pyramidal distribution - one VO2max workout, and one threshold/high sweet spot workout a week.

Then add to that 1-2 outside endurance rides (these are usually mixed intensity, averaging an endurance pace, but I don’t go above low sweet spot).

The low volume plans work great for that - I do the 2 weekday workouts, then add from there.

@batwood14

maybe if I find the right grove I can do 2 Vo2 workouts per week if everything else is easy. We’ll see

Depending on your goals (shorter punchy rides vs long sustained effort rides) and profile (at the extremes, diesel vs sprinter) it may be worth adding a sweet spot/threshold session in place of the 2nd VO2 max session. And the lines between these start to blur when you get to workouts like the “Seiler 8 min intervals”.

[Deckys]

I had a similar story. Been using structured training for a few years, but more so, within the last 2 and a bit years with TR, where I religiously, followed plan after plan. Even went off reservation and started to add extra’s - anything to build the FTP. It did the job, I managed to get 4w/kg from a fairly modest standpoint. But the work was bloody hard.
Although, I could manage the training stress, combined with psychosocial stress it insidiously dismantled me.

This really never gets talked about, we religiously do these workouts and yes, they’re fine and great for growing our Fitness, right at the begining. We look to others and hear people smashing out sessions and feeling great or hearing on podcasts, “of sucking it up”.
I went through a particularly dark place where my FTP decreased, I lost a lot of weight despite eating like an horse, I noticed biological symptoms of depression, anergia and worse of all anhedonia. But you know what I did, HTFU!! How bloody brilliant!!! And it just made it worse. I lost my love for cycling and it goes on…
I went through a right ol look into myself and realised that not we’re not all the same. And basing training on the best possible result 4 weeks ago is a nonsense!! The simple truth is, my FTP would be 300 one day, next 280. It just changes so much. But me, being me, I wouldn’t have it. I would cause myself increased mental distress if I couldn’t complete workouts. Or do, easier workouts and not heed the warning signs.

One of biggest signs for me, was my heart rate change. It was merely a marker, a flag that’s something is wrong. I feel this is not really addressed in TR and indeed, so many times over the podcasts it’s been said to ignore it. That maybe okay in a race, in training no!! At first I couldn’t get my HR up to an appropriate level and I thought, is this a problem, nah, just get on with it. Everyone else is. Then I noticed,. HR was disproportionately high per zones I were training. I just couldn’t win.

Enter Stephen Seller. This has turned my training upside down and literally for the past year, been the most welcome addition. Naturally, I have, messed about with the training, and got to a point where I think I have it right based around the scientific evidence and assimilated to me. Being a bloke of almost 47 (which I can’t deny is part of the issue) I’m literally training to my physiology and this has helped me to tune into myself rather than tailoring to a dubious percentage of a theoretical time. Nah!!

I love TR and still use it for my long focused indoor rides and of course hard day’s, like you say. But, listen to the body and mind, warning signs are there for a reason. Act upon and make a change.

Apologies for any errors writing this - wrote on a little smart phone!

[Jacks22]

I’m glad I found this thread. I’m 44 and have dug myself into a big bad mood pit. I “think” I just brought too much unstructured riding fatigue into SSB 1 and 2. Then after SSB I felt pretty strong and went out and tried to crush it on every outdoor ride. On top of that I was lifting weights once or twice a week. So no totally off days. Now I’ve totally crashed mood-wise. The past two days are the first two days in a row where I haven’t done any exercise in a long time.

Lately I’ve noticed that my HR has been high for similar outdoor efforts. Could be cause it’s hotter for sure - but I’m looking down and seeing HR and thinking WTF! This has been typical lately: rode an identical route and same pace 30mi/ 1700ft: Day 1 @ 75F - Z4 threshold was 18%, around two weeks later: Day 2 @ 85F Z4 was 52%. Again, this is indicative of all my rides lately - just seems like no matter what my HR is going high.

The guessing game with Over-training/reaching is so tough. So hard to take a break in the middle of summer.

[JJR]

An AI (artificial intelligence) layer that detects changes in performance (elevated HR, delayed recovery, etc.) and adjusts a user’s workout plan accordingly will be the next generation application. It would probably also detect irregular heartbeats.

[llmonty]

To follow up - to document progress / diagnosis.

I continued to not be able to get on the bike for the rest of June, into July with most of the symptoms. I went to a cardiologist, a new GP, and a nutritionist. Turns out I had some kind of inflammation in my heart that may / may not have been related to a viral infection - like Epstein Barr. Oddly, that made me feel better to have a diagnosis. I am also seeing a nutritionist around my higher-than-should-be A1C levels and doing glucose sticks. Borderline A1C levels (pre-diabetes)

In the last month the bad thoughts went away, sleeping better, and have had some promising indoor rides (albeit at a lower intensity and FTP). I have yet to ride outside again since Memorial day. Combo of the heat, busy with work and life, and falling down the stairs right when I was feeling better and messing up my foot. doh!

Motivation hasn’t been great, but glad to be over most of the physcial/mental symptoms. My cardiologist doesn’t want me doing super high HR activity for the next 3 months, until I get a clear MRI. But I am weighing and evaluating exactly what that means.

[llmonty]

Leaving this here. I was definitely stage 2.