Absolutely, I’m in general a Shimano fan over SRAM. I’m putting old AXS onto the new XC build but won’t have UDH for some time.
I’ve just picked up a bike with GX/NX mechanical mix and it reaffirms my thoughts on pre-transmission. Smoother than expected with a brand new chain erc, but clunky and less mechanically sympathetic.
The biggest and most appealing advantage to me of transmission is the rebuildable/repairable nature. Its just a lot of weight and proprietary stuff. I would very much like to try Flight Attendant too, it’s not clear yet if i will have to have a Quarq PM or if any will do.
An excellent and unbiased review, also some pretty good discussion in the comments. Great quote: “When it comes to the shifting performance of GX Transmission, it is as excellent as it is unnecessary for the average mountain biker.”
I have ran normal mech Gx for years on multiple bikes and I liked it. Yes it was a little fiddly, but its cheap, never let me down on a ride, and shifts well. I’m sure this new stuff is lights out better, but not sure if I actually need that level of shifting performance.
The previously released Eagle Transmission groups have been on sale for a while already. For example, the X0 group has dropped to 1300€, the same as the list price of the latest GX group.
The market says otherwise. SRAM isn’t trying to beat shimano in the low end bike market. For mid/high end MTB’s, SRAM is currently dominating the market, so they seem to be doing OK on their price vs. value. I don’t know what their actual marketshare is in this space, but I’d guess it’s over 80% based on what I see at the starting line of any MTB race or group ride.
When I read comments like this, I wonder whether we have all been riding the same drivetrains. XTR M9000 works great and is an improvement to the 10-year-old XT drivetrain I had before (M785?).
Yes, I run XTR M9000 (latest 11-speed) with a 1x up front. The only thing I personally miss is a 12th cog.
No, I did not say I can’t shift under load. I said that as with all drivetrains I have owned or ridden (mostly Shimano, but also SRAM), you need to let off power just a little when you shift and you e. g. shouldn’t shift while sprinting or putting down big watts. When navigating obstacles offroad, you need to time your shifts and pick your gearing to anticipate that.
According to the reviews, you can shift Transmission drivetrains pretty much any time you want. I haven’t tried them myself, so I can’t go off of anything but reviews.
It shifts great under load, but I still let off power when I execute shifts, even if a little. According to the reviews of SRAM Transmission drivetrains it really seems to be a step change in this respect. Plus, if you want electronic shifting (and 12 speeds), then SRAM is the only game in town.
Look, our Shimano drivetrains will still work fine, but the future is better We could discuss whether we need better shifting performance … but tech like that will trickle down eventually and everyone (with a SRAM MTB drivetrain) will get to enjoy it.
I want native power meters from manufacturers, that should be table stakes. SRAM offers cheap left-sided power meters across most of its entire line-up whereas Shimano doesn’t offer any native power meters in its gravel and MTB groupsets. It is definitely a weakness in Shimano’s product portfolio. I’m constantly tempted to get a Rotor crank, but can’t bring myself to chucking a perfectly good XTR crank.
With a Shimano hollow crank, you’re worried about breaking the arm in two during a rock strike; with the Rotor, you’re worried about breaking the rock.
Exactly. I have mountain bike that has a UDH which came with an XT drivetrain. Later, I converted it to a GX AXS setup which was as simple as removing the XT and installing/adjusting the GX. AXS.
Then a few weeks ago I needed to do some troubleshooting on another bike with an X0 Transmission so I just pulled UDH with the GX AXS still attached off the bike and installed the X0 Transmission derailleur from the other bike. After I did the testing I removed the T-type and reinstalled the GX AXS and never had to touch any adjustments. It ran perfectly. The whole process took maybe 10 minutes.
The UDH is huge win in IMHO since it allows an upgrade path to the Transmission if that’s the direction you want to go but beyond that it provides a common hanger that almost any decent shop will have in stock instead of searching for correct hanger out of the hundreds, if not thousands, that are out there and no shop stocks.
Based on some things I’ve read, this is only “officially” true for Shimano’s MTB groupsets. I’m just going off 3rd party info here, I’ve never messed with it, so who knows? All that said, lots of folks have good results doing things that are outside “official” support. Also, Wheels MFG recently released UDH adapters (including a version for shimano road), so maybe compatibility concerns are dated. Here’s an article w/ some language that highlights the compatibility challenges.
"An ULTEGRA derailleur would be outside Shimano’s specified tolerances when combined with the UDH, for example. This doesn’t mean that it won’t work smoothly, but it isn’t officially endorsed. Offering such a combination as standard would lead to a legal liability grey area, which will quickly deter many brands. "
Ah right, I see what you are saying now! On road and gravel it might not quite be to spec. In that case I wouldnt be surprised if the bike manufacturers can just go with their own hanger like they always used in the past.
My Rocky Mountain Altitude MTB for example has UDH support, but by default it comes with a specific hanger because of a flip chip at the back to shorten the chainstay, which you can’t use with the UDH.
No need to convince me about Rotor cranks, I am already a fan! I have an oval chainring by Rotor to tide me over. The engineering was superb, the chainring is stiffer than the XTR chainring I took off. And Rotor was kind enough to include 4 beautifully machined metal bits (the bits the chainring screws screw into) because the Shimano ones are a giant pain.
My plan is to get a Rotor crank on my next bike. Like I wrote, XTR 1x11 is perfect — with the exception of a missing 12th cog. I have a feeling that I will need the 12th cog now that I have moved to Austria. So new plan: convince my wife over time that I need a new bike
I guess I’m a little confused here. How is the UDH all that different than the 100s of other derailleur hangers that Shimano manages to work with? I see that wheels manufacturing makes direct mount hangers for UDH frames but I’m not sure I follow why using a standard UDH and a B link is any different than any other non-standard hanger?
I’ve never messed with a UDH bike, so can’t say firsthand. Looking at the design, they don’t look that different to me from some other designs that leverage the through axle, but maybe a little different in the way they screw together. More than anything, I think the goal was to standardize and allow the new approach for mounting a RD in a way that it’s structurally integrated with the through axle for strength. As far as compatibility, I honestly don’t understand why there would be any issues creating an adapter to use Shimano road components. It seems you could form a metal adapter in a way that gets the RD into proper position. Wheels MFG claims to have one that works. But there must be something to it. Brands are quickly converting MTB frames to UDH, but not nearly as quickly on the gravel and road frames. Maybe it’s just because they see SRAM transmission as the only compelling reason to add it and that is technically a MTB group, but so many people running eagle on gravel bikes these days, there will certainly be demand for transmission there as well. Here’s a link to an overview on UDH -
I’ve been running the XO transmission for the last 3 months and in my last 3 races. The only negative is the weight. The benefits far outweigh (pun intended) the heft increase. I ride in some chunky areas and lost several places in two races due to bent derailer hangers. Then trying to bend them back in line and needing to always carry a spare hanger was getting old. I switched to the transmission and everything has been flawless. Shift under full load going up climbs or sprinting without issue or concern. Definitely has removed one of my concerns during a race. If I am going to train to do well in a mtb race, I did not want to have a derailer hanger take me out again.
Yes, I was. Ironically someone made the same comment to me then bent his during a warm up lap. Slight mistake, laid his bike down on the drivetrain side, bent and it resulted in him having about 4 gears.
We have a lot of chunky rocks easily at derailer height, just takes a slight hit and it is bent.
I just installed transmission on my Epic Evo and I am absolutely blown away. This is my first experience with AXS and can’t believe how much better transmission is than anything else I have ridden.
As a mechanical engineer, I’m excited to see how it evolves from here, carries over to gravel, and how Shimano responds in the future!
I have gx derailleur, chain, and cassette with the x0 power meter cranks. Some of the coolest things about it in my opinion: 1) shifting under load is as good as they say. I’ve noticed the benefit the most when going from a steep downhill into an uphill. I can dump gears and as long as you keep pedaling the derailleur just shifts, and it’s smooth. 2) the simplicity of pressing a button to shift if quite nice. This applies to the “old” Eagle axs too, but this is my first experience. 3) setup was quite enjoyable and easy. The setup steps were very easy to follow and fun to learn to be tech while doing it. SRAM was pretty clever with some the setup features designed in like the setup lock on the derailleur cage.
We could discuss whether we need better shifting performance … but tech like that will trickle down eventually and everyone (with a SRAM MTB drivetrain) will get to enjoy it.