GX is super, extra, freaking heavy. That’s going to make a marked difference between OEM bike models equipped with AXS.
For me, I don’t want transmission. I’m happy to try (and hopefully love) current AXS, but if I’m going to have to add that sort of weight to my XC bike, I’d rather have a gearbox hub. I’d love that to be what Shimano had been working on. Their patent on a UDH-ish hanger suggests they’re just going along with the same progression though.
Yeah, I’m very happy with my non-UDH bike that’s only a couple years old, and I still have mechanical Eagle on it that I have been wanting to upgrade to AXS, so that is the route I will likely go and suspect I will be perfectly happy with. While the GX Transmission price point is more appealing from an upgrade standpoint, I’d be looking at a new bike to go with Transmission anyhow, and I’m not wanting to go that route. I do like the sound of what Transmission has to offer over AXS and would look for it or look to spec it on my next bike, but I’m not there yet and suspect I’d be perfectly happy with AXS until that point.
I don’t think axs eagle is going anywhere, maybe just in name. SRAM just launched APEX AXS Eagle (marketed as a gravel group, but by most accounts it’s basically rebranded Eagle AXS GX).
The real interesting thing to watch will be what the bike manufacturers do with the UDH standard beyond mountain bikes. There are only a few gravel frame offerings that use UDR and my understanding is that you can’t always do an adapter to run a “regular” RD on a road/gravel frame that uses UDH (you can usually use an adapter for a MTB). That leaves shimano without any option (mechanical or electronic) for any gravel/road frame with UDH. The use of AXS eagle 1x for gravel racing has become mainstream in the last few years and you’re already seeing a few gravel bikes that support udh. I know Keegan’s new “unreleased” bike at unbound was running transmission, so I’m guessing future bikes will probably be going toward this standard (for gravel and cross where 1x has become so prevalant).
Do you mean the GX mechanical groupset at 650?
The GX transmission is right about in line with the current gen GX AXS groupset so it doesn’t seem like anything out of the norm from a pricing perspective.
But the UDH is just a derailleur hanger - I would think that those frames would work ok with a Shimano RD and UDH.
It’s only about 100g vs. XO, and almost all that weight is in the cassette. Transmission weight differences mirror the differences on the older AXS stuff and GX AXS is a very common OEM option (even on XC bikes). As much as I like those fancy cnc’d XX1 cassettes, I always buy GX versions and take the 1/4 pound penalty. I have XX1 RD and Shifter because that was the only option when I bought them, but I’d do GX/Apex if I was buying again today. They all work the same and the weight just isn’t enough to matter for me.
I have not personally messed with it, but my understanding is that you can use an adapter to a regular RD hanger on a MTB, but it’s technically out of spec for Shimano on road/gravel frames. Not sure if that means it simply won’t work or just not optimal, but there is much discussion on this point in the gravel world. If people want transmission, they will be drawn to bikes that support UDH, but the bike companies don’t want to design a frame that can’t support both shimano and SRAM (and both 1x and 2x). for bikes that were already 1x only, those will be the most likely to go UDH. There is talk of having 2 frame options, but that creates a lot of complexity that they’d rather avoid.
Not at all. Shimano already dominates the low end segment, and SRAM dominates the high end (imo). Its the middle (Gx, Deore) where things are competitive, and it seems to me like SRAM is making a move to improve their mid-level offerings. It really looks like they are making a phased shift to exclusively electric drivetrains in this segment, slowly phasing out the mech stuff over the next few years.
SRAM seems to be hoping that the improved performance and higher cost will be worth it to consumers at the mid-range drivetrain level (Gx). I personally think its a bad bet, and alot of the calculus might be have driven by the large increases in bike prices in 2020-2022, which they hoped set a new baseline. But now we are seeing those prices drop big time, and brands might be reluctant to shell out to spec these drivetrains on their builds.
I bought GX and a Ratio cage, I’m not opposed a teeny bit of weight. It just seems if I’m making the concession to weight, there’s other options to consider.
I doubt there is enough value in the market/people would be too hesitant to change wholesale for the two S’s to genuinely crack something else.
From my perspective, SRAM is betting big on electronic and 1x. They are hoping that when someone can chose between shimano mechanical vs. SRAM electronic, the electronic will draw more customers. A shimano XT MTB is priced about the same as a GX AXS bike that is otherwise the same. For me (and many others I’d guess), I’d pick the GX AXS bike with hesitation. Probably a little heavier, but the advantages of electronic are big (to me). I agree that this has historically been more of a mid/high range focus, but it’s trickling down quickly. With SRAM recently launching APEX Axs Eagle, they continue to make electronic a more compelling option. As the volume goes up, the cost to design and manufacture continues to drop and they can offer electronic at lower and lower price points. I understand that there are still folks out there that don’t want electronic shifting, but there is no denying that the mechanical world is shrinking and the electronic world is growing. Where do you want to be selling?
In terms of performance, without a doubt. Deore/SLX drags SX/NX through the mud. Unfortunately I think SX/NX is more prevalent in lower specced bikes.
I’d LOVE to see more Deore/SLX, it shifts so much smoother…upgrade the shifter and it’s as good as XT.
Is there a power meter option with GX?
It would be nice to see a lightweight left side power meter like they have on rival (et. al) gravel/road group sets.
Yes. Well not priced well and not specific X0 Eagle AXS Transmission Left Arm Spindle Power Meter | PM-X0-ASSY-D1 | SRAM
The Apex one is $220.
Awesome. Thanks for sharing!
There’s gotta be one inbound. The single sided one doesn’t perform to that price point. Either spend $100 more on a proper one or wait for the well priced $220 one.
No adapter required - the UDH just acts like a regular derailleur hanger.
So any bike with UDH compatibility, you just use a Universal Derailleur Hanger and mount your Shimano RD to it. And the nice thing is all shops will carry the UDH too so it’s basically going to become a standard.
It’s a no brainer for the bike manufacturers to adopt, which was clearly SRAM’s plan all along. They have been playing the long game for sure!
Can you shift Shimano 12-speed under full load and/or under load with a motor? I have Shimano XTR on my bike and I am sure it can’t do the former and kinda doubt the latter.
BTW, I’m not dinging Shimano MTB drivetrains, apart from a missing (native) power meter Shimano’s mechanical MTB groupset line-up is great.
Yup, agreed. Add to that the power meter options and Shimano has a hard time convincing me that I should give them my money next time. Shimano still hasn’t brought 12-speed electronic MTB groupsets to market. Not sure who on this forum pointed this out to me, but this seems to be a strategy tax for their decision against wireless on the road side.
Apex AXS Eagle is very compelling. And GX Transmission seems to do what is on the tin, same performance as its more expensive brethren, but heavier and cheaper.
Yes, and that has been a long-standing recommendation: forget about upgrading the rear derailleur, change your shifter.
UDH is great news even if we need to pry your Shimano drivetrain from your cold, dead hands: it means that you will no longer have to purchase frame-specific RD hangers. That alone is huge and makes me wonder why it hadn’t occurred to Shimano to do something similar.
11 speed Shimano was notoriously the worst of their mountain bike drivetrains in terms of shifting.
I sont shift under load if i can at all help it, but when i have done, it’s managed with a bit more noise.
The motor part is the whole reason for HG+ HG+ shifts great under load and can handle odd tooth gears!
I don’t see native PM as a big deal with widely avb crank arm solutions that can be easily moved. Left side only is a think they are less responsive than dual side - esp if you lead with the right leg.
Anyway, the point is that SRAM can’t justify their price point.
That may be true, but Shimano’s latest 12-speed stuff is the gearing of interest to compare… and it’s a whole different thing than their older 11-s. It is quite good and was likely the best at hard shifts until SRAM Transmission showed up.