This is a documentation of my personal test using the Polarized Training approach for a 4-week period. It is a simple attempt at using this method with no actual scientific documentation and lacks a full attempt to make this wide reaching. I want to try this process in contrast to my 3 prior years of using the TR SST approaches. 4-Weeks Prior to POL Test Period: [image] [image] Long Z1 Workout - Vogelsang [image] 4-Week of POL Test Period (3 Build + 1 Recovery) & 1-Week with Ramp Test Follow-Up and Disaster-Half Workout (for Fitness Evaluation): Wk 1 - Test & Work [image] Wk 2 - Work [image] Wk 3 - Work [image] Wk 4 - Recovery [image] Wk 5 - Testing [image] My TR Profile for Review of Workouts (if desired): Chad’s Calendar Chad’s Past Rides Link to my “Power Zones 2.0” sheet with my Zone Calculations My 3-Zone chart based on 254w FTP and 185 BPM Max HR. [image] Week 1 Summary, Build: Ramp Test: I did a solid Ramp Test (254w, my highest tested FTP ever) and it was at least in part due to performing it “blind”. I had a friend hold the phone and only tell me if my cadence dropped below my preference. First Z3 VO2 Max Workout - 7x 4/2 VO2 Int 108%: There is an error in this workout. Claims to be 2 mins of recovery, but is only set at 1 min. I manually extended them to 3-4 minutes. The first 3 intervals were hard, and more work than I have done recently. I needed more recovery and bombed halfway thru the middle interval. I lowered Intensity to 98%, to approximate a 250w FTP. I did a bit better after that and finished the last 2 intervals at full time (4 min). I need to go back to shorter intervals (thinking 3 min) with equal rest time for now. VO2 Max intervals are my nemesis. I need to work on my mental game as much as anything as well as accepting that I can probably complete them at my tested 254w FTP. But I do wonder if that is fully true based on my age (almost 44) and general difficulty with VO2 Max work. FTP Reduction: I ended up reducing my FTP from 254w per the Ramp Test to 250w. I did this because of the difficulty I had in the Z3 workout above. I want to consider raising it back up to 254w, but I will review that after doing the Z3 workout at the beginning of next week and seeing how that goes. Long Z1 Workout - Vogelsang: Performed with 100% Intensity. My typical goal is to do these long workouts with absolutely no coasting or non-pedaling. I aim to maximize the payback on this trainer time by not wasting even one second, if I can. I completed the whole workout with only one non-pedaling moment. I dropped my sandwich at 2 hours in and decided to stop and get it vs going hungry. I am mildly sore today without the major DOMS that followed the pre-POL period of the 4-hour day followed by the 2-hour day. [image] Week 2 Summary, Build: First Z3 Workout - Mount Deborah: Changed to Mount Deborah per recommendation from Nate, and it was a perfect fit. The 1:1 work to recovery suits me well, and I was able to increase workout Intensity for most of the intervals. I shot for around 109% of FTP and felt like I worked hard, but not impossibly hard to the point of panic gasps at the end. I plan to increase intensity on the Mount Alyeska on Thursday to get a similar increase, but I will evaluate as needed since the intervals are 4 minutes (1 minute longer than last night). FTP Increase/Reset: I ended up increase my FTP from 250w to 254w per the Ramp Test. I did this because of the solid completion of the Z3 workout above. I think the test was accurate, but the poor choice of the first Z3 workout lead me to question my FTP more than it should have. I will leave my FTP at 254w for the remainder of this testing. Second Z3 Workout - Mount Alyeska: Did Mount Alyeska with it’s longer intervals. Took some effort and I wanted to stop short or backpedal more than once… but I stayed on it and finished with no breaks. Super happy to have nailed that and fought through some internal doubt. Long Z1 Workout- Outside Ride: Did this outside since we had great weather and my friend really wanted to get off the trainer. Definitely not the consistent work I prefer, but it was fun to get out. I won’t lie though, because I really felt a bit shorted on the stress I get from a non-stop 4-hour trainer ride. [image] Medium Z1 Workout - Town Hill: I chose a slightly longer ride to make up for the shortage on the long ride the day before. Felt good, once I got going, but the legs were surely tired from the long ride already. [image] Week 3 Summary, Build: First Z3 Workout - Mount Deborah +1: This one scared me a bit. I did the Mt Deb on the second week at my reduced 250w FTP (because I was worried about my reaction in the Z3 workout on Saturday in the first week). So this is the same as the first MT Deb, with my 254w FTP, and added 3 more of the 3 min intervals. I got into it and started ticking them off and did ok up until the end of the 6th interval. Slight breathing panic during recovery scared me (as happens sometimes). I pedaled through it and got into the 7th. I decided to backpedal at the recoveries (30 seconds with the workout paused) in the final 3 recoveries. I wanted to make sure I nailed the final 3 work intervals. I was able to get them all and got 30 mins in mid-VO2 Max, so I think I did pretty well with this one. Second Z3 Workout - Mount Alyeska +1: This went very similar to the first Z3 workout this week. I got through the same number of intervals as the “normal version” of this workout before deciding to take a 30-second backpedal to recover. I did back pedals in the final 3 recovery intervals. I did this again to make sure I could fully complete the work intervals and that worked. You can see the HR increase and cadence decrease in the progression of the work intervals. That shows my fatigue. I used the same reminders “hard days hard” and “this is the last hard workout this wee” as motivation to help me push through the final minute of the last 4 work intervals. These may be around a 107% of my FTP and not high VO2 Max work, but they still take some effort and focus to finish each time. Long Z1 Workout - Longfellow: Something went very off the rails on this workout. I don’t have conclusive answers, but a I suspect incorrect power data is the likely culprit. The RPE and HR for that indicated power was well over what it should have been and not what I had intended for that ride. I should have stopped mid-ride and re-calibrated the trainer, but I had it in my head that I would get “over the hump” somehow. But that never happened, unfortunately. I fully recognize that it is not a shining example of a “proper” long and easy ride. It is what it is, despite wanting it to be better, so I have to go with it for now. I selected this ride as a basic step up in power from the prior Vogelsang and outside rides. Additionally, I set it to 101% in attempt to increase the TSS for the week. I ended up dropping the Workout Intensity around hour 2. I did this in attempt to “recover” from what was more RPE and HR than I should have had. It didn’t really help even after Hitting a low of 97% for a while. I ended up finishing at 100% and just accepted the fact that I had screwed up this workout. The intensity ended up higher via RPE, despite what the power shows. Thinking back to the objective of these long rides, it’s to stress the aerobic system and muscle fibers in particular ways. I likely over-performed and stepped above the goal zones. I know I really strained my system overall, but likely not in the way that is intended. [image] Medium Z1 Workout - Boarstone: I was dreading this workout on the heals of the mishap in Longfellow. This workout is essentially a 2-hour version of Longfellow, with nearly identical power intensity. So I didn’t know what to expect. I did the 10 minute warm-up, and then calibrated the Kickr 2017 in TrainerRoad. I did this because I suspected bad power data in the prior workout. I started a new session of Boarstone to run the whole workout, including the full 10-min warm-up again. I figured the excessive work from yesterday would lead to big fatigue and make this workout as bad. Fortunately for me, that was not the case. Amazingly (or perhaps not) RPE and HR were right where they should have been. Things felt “normal” and easy again, even at the same power levels that put the hurt on my in Longfellow. This seems to be a reinforcement that I likely had bad data the day before. I have no idea why the data would have been so far off yesterday. I did not load/unload my bike or make any changes to the bike/trainer setup in any way. It sits fully prepped all of the time. Room temp was similar on both days and not excessively hot (thanks to my fans and open window). [image] Week 4 Summary, Recovery: Medium Z1 Workout - Boarstone [image] Week 5 Summary, Fitness Evaluation: Ramp Test: ??? ODZ Friday Ebb Ride: ??? Disaster-Half Workout: ??? Zwift Medio Fondo (Pretzel Route): ??? Ref Info: (Weekly hours over the last year, from Strava) [image] Super short summary: I like the feeling from long rides and plan to do them more in the future. VO2 Max hard workouts around 108% FTP worked well for me. I need to do some higher effort anaerobic workout as the sister to the VO2 max for variety and to stress systems differently. I think the change in stress distribution was good for me, even though it’s far from conclusive from my stats. FTP change was minimal, but I hit some PRs after my recovery week and did some really solid rides. Overall, a good test and worth trying something different. I will take these basic notes into my new season of TR that starts after THX giving. Adding more short notes. I don’t have a hard summary. I finished my POL period as planned but don’t offer a firm conclusion for a number of reasons. My experience may or may not be applicable to any other rider. I never planned to make a strong claim of failure or success. The thread was sharing my experience and maybe help share info that is confusing about how POL might be planned and applied. But there aren’t many prescriptive plans out there, so I made mine up as best guesses. I can’t begin to say my experience was even “correct”. I only had a short window of time and made a 4 week effort. In all honesty that’s too short to make any call. I completed the POL period and planned to follow with SSB for direct, personal comparison. Bit I got sick before that and ended up with 3 weeks off the bike. So my planned comparison kinda died. Overall, it was a great experience and the biggest takeaway for me was the value in the long and easy ride. I plan to include a couple every month based on what I gained from them, even while following the regular TR plans.

Finally got round to doing a FTP test after a change of tact this winter. I’d been following TR plans this last 4 years and while I had great improvements for the first few years I’d plateaued and couldn’t shift my FTP upwards at all. So this autumn and winter I’ve replaced many of my rides with easy rides <LT1 to see the effect. Still doing 2x hard workouts every week, mix of SS, VO2 but mostly threshold efforts to be honest. Happy to say I’ve saw a 10% increase from the end of last season. Surprised myself with that increase after the stagnation that I’ve had for the least couple of years. I’m pretty much following the fast talk podcast’s 3x types of rides now every week. 2x short and hard, 2-4 short and easy recovery rides and 1x 3-4 hr easy ride. Interested now to see how far I can push on until I need to refresh my plan again.

I think there is definite logic to support a training approach that incorporates some longer easier rides, in addition to the usual intense stuff. I think a polarized model works well for a certain profile of athlete, but not everyone, and some athletes will benefit significantly from adding sweet spot workouts to the mix. This thread is well worth a read. [image] That Triathlon Show | EP#169 - FTP, VO2max and VLaMax Training A bit more (and IMO better) deep-dive into VLamax than the Velonews podcast. Personally, answered most of the follow-up questions I had after listening to the Velonews interview. (Chapeau! @Mikael_Eriksson) Mikael is going to be interviewing Dr Seiler for an upcoming podcast, so that should be very interesting. [image] Questions for Stephen Seiler interview (Polarized Training) Training I decided to post a new topic rather than comment on one of the existing topics to make it easier for me to find the actual questions. Moderators, if it’s better to merge, feel free to do so. To get to the point, I’m interviewing Stephen Seiler next week for my podcast That Triathlon Show. And I thought I’d hear what potential listeners want to learn from in in particular. So if you have any questions for him or topics you’d like us to tackle, please comment. The best questions/topics that h…

Since I had a little bit of a free period I figured that I would give an update. I am just finishing up the recovery week of my build, so will be might be seeing some fitness more gains over the next week if everything is consistent with my progress in the past. Once again, only doing the short power weekday interval sessions from low volume. This period, doing the 2nd bike interval day the day after the run based intervals was a bit of a breaking point. Maybe I overdid the running intervals, maybe not. Maybe the three minute intervals are just that hard, and judging by a few of the pro workload threads, trying to do 9 VO2 intervals of 2.5 to 3 minutes is a hero task, there is supposed to be a point of diminishing returns and I think I at least reached it. What was good though is that I did hit all my power targets in the short power workouts of williamson and ansel adams. Weekend zone 2 rides were roughly 75% of FTP for main target, but would usually put me at the zone 1/2 threshold. Here’s the first endurance ride I did. It says tempo, but I did a 5% drop from the power targets since I liked the duration of the workout, but wanted to give it a slight bump down to my HR target (around 125, I have a max of 175) [image] And here was my most recent indoor endurance ride, slightly modified for short power, doing 4 sprints during a mainly 75% of FTP power target [image] And here’s the most recent outdoor ride, power/HR is going to be very different outdoors since the power demands of outdoor riding cause more spikes in power necessary. If there’s a blind turn coming up, I will hustle a little bit to get past it when I know no cars are coming, but I still think overall HR response was ideal. [image] [image] Overall, I have hit TSS numbers on the bike that I was only able to hit as one week spikes, and did these consistently through the build. 300 TSS on the bike was about my limit when doing harder weekend rides, and I think also being smarter about my runs has made it possible to get an overall higher TSS. On to the run: Here’s a long run from early in the build: [image] [image] And now the last long run that was on pavement, a very comparable course to the one linked above. Almost 25s/mile faster at the same average HR, lower HR peak. Once again, no training in the middle zone. 133 is 74% of my max of 180 for the run. Maybe slightly higher by a few beats than people who would be doing longer, but I think that as long as I’m doing a pace where there’s almost no decoupling, that I’m going to go ahead and run/ride at that pace. [image] [image] In all, I’ve been manually changing my FTP in TR, starting at 290, and now have it set to 300. Since short power and the XCO specialty have so many high power workouts, I’m going to be cautious about jumping too quickly. I didn’t really summarize the Z4/Z5 workouts here, but don’t quite have the time now, and those are in the plans. Basically, I would get confirmation of correct power targets if I had a repeatable power, and it would eventually get me to >= 92% of HR Max from about the middle of the workout and beyond. So even though my FTP might be a little bit lower than I’d get from the 8 minute test, my HR response is telling me that I was right in the sweet spot for the high intensity work. As I mentioned briefly, I did have one failure on Kaiser +2. It was the day after a 20 minute tempo and I just could not hit the power target. I did ok on Matthes +2 the week before, hitting target on the first 6, but then things started dropping from there. As I said before, after reading through some of the pro workouts, 9 repeats at that power is a HERO workout, so hats off to people who can complete those as designed. In all, 3rd year of TR, and highest compliance rate of my build yet. My compliance for the plan, swapping out the middle effort rides with z2 rides has made this a rather enjoyable experience as seeing consecutive progress keeps my motivation high. I think that I am a good responder to this kind of training since I have a pretty good background on sustained efforts. I had been doing too much middle intensity work as my high intensity and I had not been doing true VO2 max work as my hard work. With this focus on VO2 max, I am tapping in to an aspect of training that has been lacking for me in the past. Clearly the polarized aspect of this is working for a short power kind of athlete, but the improvements in the run, which are steady state efforts shows that increasing ability from the top up, pulls up the ability in the “easier” efforts. 200-220 watts isn’t a high power, but having that as a 3-5 hour power ability for someone my size (I float between 152-154) I’ll definitely take it. Now that it’s finally drying up around here, I’ll be getting out on my mountain bike more, and that will mean more middle zone work, but my main target workouts will be the 2 weekday interval sessions from the XCO specialty LV plan, and 1 day of running intervals. I will try to swap one of them out occasionally for an XC ride, and will try to get in some longer XC rides on the weekends. Might shorten the time on those since there will be different power demands than the road rides and don’t want to add too much stress with them.

[image] DaveWh: I think a polarized model works well for a certain profile of athlete, but not everyone, and some athletes will benefit significantly from adding sweet spot workouts to the mix. I agree. I also think that Sebastian Weber’s theory regarding VLAmax goes a long way to explaining why both approaches (or even a combination of them) work - it all depends on an individuals physiology, not forgetting that that can change over a period of time depending on what training they do. It’s almost like The Unified Theory of Training.

Here is the latest podcast with Stephen Seiler, always interesting to listen to. [image] Polarised training with Stephen Seiler, PhD | EP#177 Stephen Seiler, PhD, is known for his research on how elite endurance athletes actually train. In this research, he discovered that most endurance athletes spend the majority of their training time (~90%) at very low intensities (below the first... Estimated reading time: 24 minutes [26]

Which is the better book - the endurance diet or racing weight?

I only read the endurance diet. But i heard a lot of great feedback about the other book. Maybe someone else read it here?

Racing Weight is mentioned in several threads. I didn’t dig in to find which ones cover the content, but I think you will find something in these links. https://www.trainerroad.com/forumsearch?q=racing%20weight%20book

For those who want the exact ACE Talk Test protocol: VT_Testing.pdf 699.05 KB

My Polarized Training Experience (Chad McNeese & others)

Training

mcneese.chad April 17, 2019, 6:39pm 463

We have an active thread discussion that episode in particular.

Topic		Replies	Views
Polarized Training Discussion (Fast Talk podcast & Flo Cycling podcast) Training polarized	979	70670	March 7, 2022
How are people finding the TR Polarized plans? Training polarized	394	39635	October 19, 2023
🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉 Polarized Training Plans Are Here! 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉 Announcements	511	50845	February 14, 2023
Polarized Training Workouts & Experiences (80/20) Training polarized	303	38090	March 25, 2021
Polarized Training with Stephen Seiler, PhD \| EP#177 That Triathlon Show Training polarized	141	30127	November 3, 2020

My Polarized Training Experience (Chad McNeese & others)

Ask a Cycling Coach Podcast

We Are Here to Help!

My Polarized Training Experience (Chad McNeese & others)

Related topics

Get Faster with Adaptive Training

Ask a Cycling Coach Podcast

We Are Here to Help!