Hi Team,
Looking for the best rim width and tyre combo for road racing and criterium racing ?
Modern wheelsets from mainstreem manufacturer appears they all are going wider. eg Reserve envie etc.
The question on my mind is how wide ?
This will be for a disk brake bike
Tyres at the Tour de France 2023:
Decide what tires you will ride and then size the rim accordingly to aero optimize.
I just picked up some Cannondale Hollogram R41 wheels because I was wanting to ride 30mm tires or maybe even try 32s. The R41s are 33mm wide.
Lots of rims these days (30mm wide) seem to be optimized for a 28mm tire which makes sense because that is what pros tend to ride.
Iād say it depends what the road surface is like on the crits and races you do, whether youāre likely to be racing in the wet, and whether you will also be using the wheels for training or just for racing.
I think on a decent, dry road surface, 25mm tyres are still great and maybe still slightly faster than 28mm. On the basis that theyāre a little narrower and lighter. And probably opens up more rim options for you as there are more and cheaper options (including secondhand) which are optimised for a 25mm tyre (I.e. ~28mm outer rim width like the Shimano Dura ace wheels). Also worth noting that 25mm performance tyres tend to have better availability and pricing than 28mm. But the rougher and/or wetter the surface the more youād want to go wider for lower pressure and more grip, which for racing likely means a 28mm tyre and 30+mm outer rim width. I think 28mm right now is the optimal width for performance/racing across a range of surfaces and conditions. Very few if any performance wheels being optimised for 30+.mm. Though if you really wanted to go wider than 28 then a good compromise is 28 on the front where aerodynamics matter more and 30 on the back where thereās more weight and dirty air.
Do you like them? I wasnāt aware of these wheels, they have the perfect specs (outer/inner width). There are not that many reviews about them.
I havenāt ridden them yet. Iām building up this bike for the winter and we now have snow on the ground. 
They appear to be very well made. Reviews online were pretty good when I did research. The biggest knock (road.cc) was that for a 1000 pounds you could do a little better for cheaper but I only paid $800 at bikeinn. The other knock is that they are on the heavy side. They use the same rim as the higher spec $2000 Cannondale Knot wheels but use 8 extra straight pull spokes. For me, as a 200 pound rider, I see that as a benefit. I really donāt need a 16 spoke front wheel to save a few grams.
I looked at every option at there and itās really hard to find a rim wider than 30mm. The Zipp 303S would have been perfect (around $1000) but I refuse to be a hookless guinea pig on a road bike.
The narrowest Iād go is 28 mm. If you want to race, 28ā30 mm tires should be the sweet spot, but you could even put 32 mm tires on there if e. g. the road surface is bad and/or if you need more confidence in your tires to rip it in the corners. I donāt see any point of putting 25 mm tires on a wheel these days.
As for rim width, for crit races, Iād go deeper than the goldilocks depth of 45ish mm, probably 55ā65 mm. Those should be great for road races, too, unless it gets very windy.
3T makes wheels with rather wide rims, for road they make the Discus 45|32 with 32 mm external width. They also make a gravel version that is 40 mm wide.
$1800 too! - Iāll stick with my R41s for $800.
(Iām just not a big believer in $2000 wheelsets unless you are being paid to ride them. Wheels are a consumable and Iām not a high level racer so I donāt need that last watt or gram of performance.)
For a consumable they last forever no? 
I mean unless you crash regularly. I thought wheels could last ss long as frames more or less.
Sure, they last until you crash or the spokes just start breaking with a frequency that gets super annoying. It still doesnāt change my opinion about $2000+ wheelsets and my need, or lack there of, for bleeding edge performance.
Yeah, but then frames are consumables, too 
(Rim brake wheel sets were consumables with a very long life span. Disc brake wheels arenāt.)
I got my wheel set with my 3T bike, and I didnāt pay full price.
Yes yes I can follow you there.
It depends on the definition. Not sure how long frames last, but quite long probably. Not sure I will ever āconsumeā a frame.
Ditto for wheels. The wheels on my last mountain bike were in not great shape, but that took 10 years of riding.
Consumables are parts with much shorter lives, cassettes, brake pads, brake discs, etc.
Donāt Reserves have a lifetime warranty?
Iāve spent my athletic life bucking the prevailing trends/bodies of knowledge/āconfirmed studiesā, etc. in just about every area of every sport I chose to either compete in or do as a serious or semi-serious hobby.
This area is no exception.
Iāve ridden tires (on various bikes (road, CX, gravel, touring, 29ers (on and off road and gravel), fat bikes (on and off road and gravel) of carbon, aluminum, steel, ranging from $250 to $11,000) from 23mm up to 4.0", in every size.
Iāve spent thousands on different tires and wheelsets with different rim widths (and depths).
In my experience, Iāve have been the fastest on the road with 25mm and 28mmā¦by a pretty big margin (2-4mph) and in all cases, the amount of effort I needed to expend to be fast (anywhere from sustaining long distances of 12-25mph on the flats, 8-17mph on climbs) is exponentially lower with these tire sizes.
Sure, wider tires are nice for gravel and rough roads, but every tire (no matter which one of the dozens of brands I used between 30mm and 50mm) I used was always a compromise between comfort and performance in a huge way. Slicks were ābetterā (but nowhere near as fast as 25mm or 28mm) on pavement, but sucked on gravel, due a lack of control. File tread, Knobbies, and semi-slicks were good on gravel but sucked on pavement other than riding alone at a comfort pace. They sucked in fast group rides. They all felt slow, grippy, and āstuck to the pavementā.
As a result, I have settled on 28mm for anything road/āall roadā/or paved trails/commuting. With this size, I can keep up on most A (and all B and C group rides) where the average speed is between 18-23 mph, and still be completely not beat to crap on 4-5 consecutive days of 40-50 mile rides and solo 100-150 mile road centuries.
Wow, not even close to my experience.
2-4mph faster than what? A knobby gravel tire? Iād believe that.
Most people canāt tell by feel whether a 25, 28, 30, 32, or 34mm tire is faster. Looking at the norcal tests (highly unscientific), we can see that the differences are just a few seconds. You canāt feel that.
And skinny hard tires do feel faster but we know that they arenāt and thus we no longer use 21mm tires at 110psi.
I did a Veloviewer search for rides on similar daysā¦ endurance rides are at similar power and similar routes.
Checkpoint road/gravel bike with 48mm (measured) S-Works Pathfinders. Definitely not a road tire.
Tarmac SL7 road bike with 33mm (measured) GP5000 All Season TR tires.
Ok, almost no wind.
2mph WNW wind 
riding west 
into headwind: Checkpoint
2.6mph WSW 
riding west : into headwind: Tarmac
ok road surface:
Checkpoint using Garmin RS200 power pedals, Tarmac has SRAM/Quarq Red crank. Last time I had RS200s on Tarmac and dual recorded they were pretty closet to each other: Garmin Rally Power Meter Pedals: Look Road, Shimano Road & MTB - #448 by WindWarrior
Later in that ride
2mph WNW wind riding North 
into headwind: Checkpoint
2.6mph WSW riding North with slight tailwind: Tarmac
poor road surface:
Well that is a head scratcher. Usual erg-like power, just like the previous westbound segment above.
Didnāt control for body position, however Iām usually practicing the same alternating good/better aero position during endurance rides.
Biggest difference was Checkpoint ride I was testing out a new & properly tight fitting vest, worn over a new long sleeve spring/fall jersey. And new bibs (summer).
The Tarmac ride was my usual bib tights and long sleeve fall/spring jersey.
Anyways, in that truly non-scientific test, without boring you with more data, here is the clear winner:
fenders 
and 48mm gravel tires at 50psi. Iām gonna bro-science it and give credit to the fenders and that vest.
FWIW, I have NO trouble keeping up on 18-22mph group rides on that bike.
@WindWarrior Thatās because we live in California (and riding what is considered gravel in other parts). 
added road surface pics!
For all we know, I was sitting up eating on the Tarmac during that 2nd segment with a slight tailwind.
