Hi all, long time user but I tend to go dark from TR in the warmer months and just ride – so I have really bad data since March, my rides are all logged on the TR calendar but usually MTB with no power data as well as no indoor or structured workouts with corresponding data. So… while my FTP is accurate in the software (I am well in tune with this, I’m confident my current FTP settiing in the software is correct within a couple watts), my progression levels are all at a 1.0 as they have mathematically degraded from their previous (March) values. I have an event coming up and I want to reboot some structured training, however with all my progression levels at 1.0 the Adaptive Training is “broken” and will recommend workouts that are too easy. Same applies for Train Now.
While I could be patient and do the workouts as prescribed (they will be way too easy) and rate them as “easy” in the app, or even turn up the intensity (e.g. select a “Not Recommended” workout, crush it, then rate it as “easy” and let the AT algorithm do its thing), I don’t really want to do that. My question is – can I override the AT-assigned progression levels and seed each progression level with (for example) a 5.0 value so I don’t have to spend a week or two letting the AT algorithm learn my current levels (which are much closer to 5.0 then they are to 1.0)? Any other tips or hacks for this scenario are welcomed!
No, there is now way to “manually set” Progression Levels.
Selecting a higher level workout that seems right is the best option if you want to avoid the first scenario you mention.
Picking a Stretch, Breakthrough or Not Recommended workout then completing it and answering the survey accurately is the way to go. It’s not really any different than your manual proposal other than needing to pick your own first workout.
And if you use the Workout Alternates function, it is pretty darn fast to do.
As suggested above, just use the Alternates option for the first upcoming too easy workout. Select a workout that is a bit easier than the hardest you passed before you paused the structured training (for the same FTP). Make sure you do not select a too hard workout, it takes some time to get back into the intervals.
Understood, and thanks. It’s a little annoying that I’ll have to game the system multiple times for each energy system, but I guess it’s not the end of the world. Thanks again
Picking alternates at a higher level doesn’t strike me as gaming the system. I’ve done a few times with Sprint workouts, as my training plan doesn’t add them normally, but every so often, I just want a short super intense workout.
Manually adjusting the levels with no data would certainly be gaming the system.
You’re not wrong, Pace, I’ve mentioned in other threads that resets can be too long and kind of silly, particularly when you’re talking about someone with a pretty decent grasp of their own muscular and vascular abilities…
The whole AI thing ?barely? or not accounting for unstructured outside rides has been my primary criticism since day one of its rollout. I think it ended up taking me about 6 “stretch” or “breakthrough” workout adjustments in order to get me where I felt I should be each time I’ve “started” back from the couch, and also from the time or two I’ve started back from unstructured outdoor only stuff…
Not wanting to sound negative, but its kinda crazy that “AI” degrades your personal “workout levels” if you don’t log workouts against the TR workouts. One step at a time I guess, but 2+ years later… Someday.
My criticism isn’t entirely “negative” I think its partly “constructive” but yeah… If I can roll three stretch workouts in 4 or 5 days after completing my to and fro commute based on nothing more than my commute miles and my genes, the “I” in “AI” isn’t that impressive. Which means I’d rather “know my body” than worry about specific number hits on a blue bar on the laptop in front of my trainer.
I also think that it is the biggest issue with Adaptive Training. It takes too long time to dial in your Proficiency level if you haven’t done TrainerRoad workouts of a particular style
for some time. You will start at level 1.0 (same if you just start using TrainerRoad), and have to more or less spend your full build block going from 1.0 to a more reasonable level unless you manually select alternative workouts. If you are new to TrainerRoad you might not know the trick.
I just started doing some VO2Max workouts inside the last week due to rain. I then picked a reasonable hard first workout and then did a VO2Max workout everyday following day with at a slightly harder level.
They can, but the secondary progressions are generally a lot lower than the primary ones, so unless you have an odd significant discrepancy in ability between two neighbouring workout types, it’s unlikely to get it up to where it needs to be - you’re still likely to have to pick a harder workout than suggested when it comes to doing something in that secondary one to get it back up to where you think it should be.
I guess I’d just rather supply that data with a slider in the app rather than doing the math in my head to figure out if a “Not Recommended” workout is actually the right workout, and doing that several times across several energy systems over several weeks to get my progression levels “correct”. A slider would be a lot easier
FWIW I actually have been doing proper workouts outside although generally simple things like 2x20 SST and 6x3min VO2max but not in the context of a TR workout, but since they aren’t aligned to a particular TR workout, they don’t affect my progression levels. Maybe what I want is levels V2 to actually work as that would solve this problem as well as provide all the other benefits it purports.
If you just want to “reset” your progression levels, I think you can just pick a workout with the progression you want to move to and mark it as done (or associate whatever ride you did recently to this workout, even if they have nothing to do with each other). From what I’ve seen, only AIFTP is considering work actually done in it’s calculations. All other aspects of training seem to be based on what the workout on the calendar was (even if you didn’t follow that workout in any way). For example, I can stick a 1.5 hour threshold workout on my calendar and then do a 5 hour endurance ride and associate my ride with the workout. TR will count that effort as a 1 hour threshold (using whatever the progression level was). At least that’s what I see it doing, maybe there is something more going on I’m not aware of. Until we get some version of V2, you need to give it some thought if you want to line up work performed with what you get credited for. I agree with others, best way is to get an alternate workout on the calendar that lines up well with what you are doing. Not that hard.
Can’t really see the advantage to this approach. The only time you need to worry about what your progression level is is when you want to do a relevant workout (so that it serves you up an appropriate one). But if you (think you) know where you should be you can just pick a workout at that level when you want to do it. And then you use the survey to tell it whether your estimate was right or not, so that it can recalibrate.
Falsely telling it you completed some workout is just complicating things further by potentially giving it bad data if your estimate of where you’re at is out.
I agree. And if the workout turned out to be too easy, you can swap out the endurance workout the next day with a VO2Max/Threshold/… workout similar what is on the plan for next week. As the workout was too easy you should be ready to do a new one the next day.
AGree that picking workouts is the best approach to keep everything “aligned”, but at some point it becomes tiresome if there isn’t a clean match between what you are doing and an available TR workout. My tempo level is 2.0 and it’s a zone I’m very strong in, but I don’t even bother trying to associate any tempo work I do with a TR workout since it’s typically outside stuff. Same with endurance. I’ve done it in the past and it raises the levels, but I honestly don’t look for TR to dictate Z2/Z3 work for me since I’m very focused on high volume/endurance and TR doesn’t really go there.
I think TrainerRoad reduces the levels too fast. Now it will reduce the levels after 14 days, so if you are on a plan with e.g. one threshold workout / a week there will be 14 days between the last threshold workout in phase one and the first threshold workout in phase two. And if you have to move the workouts around a bit to fit to your other life commitments, your proficiency level will be reduced and you will get a too easy threshold workout. And if you choose not to change that workout you have only two more threshold workouts before the next rest week.
The same thing goes for the outdoor season as TrainerRoad will too rapidly reduce your proficiency levels, so when you go back on the trainer it might be hard to know which level to choose.
