Losing faith with new TR plans

I agree all things being equal, it is valuable to have a good idea of what you can do for 30-60 min type efforts. But, I won’t go so far as to say short, high-intensity efforts with lots of rest are better or worse than lower intensity, less rest. More than likely, mixing it up over time would yield the best results.

I think I get what TR is trying to do. Develop a simple process for people to regularly assess fitness and consistently apply “minimum effective dose”. In that vein, I think people who are just starting or get inflated FTP estimates from ramp tests will do well with the plans. Their discussion of the data analysis certainly backs that up. And most people probably don’t go out and do a lot of continuous 30-60 min efforts at FTP anyways.

It’s the other folks who are left needing to adjust - those who have a pretty good idea of what their threshold is, or those who get lower than actual estimates of FTP from ramp tests. It must not be a big number, or else TR wouldn’t have made the changes. My only criticism is just not educating folks super well on who should or should not use the plans as written. That said, engaging with users on the forum, I can see how that is not a trivial process (note that last part is not directed at you at all).

Historically , I’ve commonly replaced TR workouts when I didn’t think the scheduled one was best suited to me on any given day, and didn’t consider that a massive deal

Comments like this really put me off this forum. It might not be a big deal to you to switch a workout, but to someone new to structured training / cycling in general (like I was when I started using TR!) it’s a huge deal - I just wouldn’t have had any clue. Also, as someone who’s really time-pressured fitting stuff around work, a couple of extra minutes’ faff choosing a new workout could be the difference between me completing something and me not having the full hour :sweat_smile: The thing I liked about the old TR plans (not used the new ones yet) is that I could just unlock my phone and go.


We are getting it from the forum. It’s hard to follow everything in this forum without spending hours. We see something and we question it. I for ONE am unhappy that something that changes for AT affects us not on AT. I realize that statement may be incorrect but I don’t have 5 hours to wade through everything. I keep asking for a thread on AT that is just from trainerroad where it has updates and answers. I am not about to read 3500 messages to get answers.


Confused as to what that comment put you off the forum. :neutral_face: Anyways, you didn’t quote what I think is the more important part, which was the second para about how much easier that all is today:

Today (ie. ignoring AT adaptive plans), with the introduction of Workout Levels and the library now searchable (and sortable) by level, and the granularity of interval type within each zone, plus with TrainNow making suggestions automatically, this task of selecting alternative workouts has been has been made much easier and faster, without really requiring prior library knowledge. Looks a doddle to me.

Honestly, do you really not have a minute or two (maybe less!) - if necessary - in order to swap out a workout those times when you think that’s necessary? Baffling to me… :confused:

A TrainNow suggestion might take <30 seconds to pick! Just how time constrained is someone that they couldn’t spare those amounts of time to pick something on those occasions they wanted an alternative? It takes me longer that that to pick what Youtube or Netflix vid to watch on the trainer… :blush:

Best of luck with it anyway - I do think the tools for selecting w/o alternatives have just got a whole load better, easier and faster to use. And that’s all prior to AT’s eventually availability that should reduce that need further…


This. If I were new to TR and at my current level (which I am very proud of) I would be confused and if I followed the plans I would likely lose fitness. Also, I think the whole ‘time crunched’ thing is one of the metrics that TR always tried to optimize for. I mean, there are some bonkers workouts in the library that have 1 minute cool down after some pretty intense intervals. That honestly makes no sense, it’s pretty clear they were bending over backwards to make the workout 60 minutes when it really should have been 65 or 70.

Asking someone new and/or time crunched to see a workout in their plan, realize that it is wrong (why is it there in the first place?), go to the workout library, understand levels and TSS enough to pick a new one that is going to meet the specific needs of their training and goal event, and then do that workout seems like needless hassle. Yes, it’s easier with levels. But it’s not easier than not having to do it.


Remember, some people had to do just this with the old plans, because some of the progression rates were too ambitious. The new plans with gentler progression glide paths arguably just mean that the cohort of users who need to resort to replacing some of their workouts has changed. Opposite sides of the same coin.

I think I’m a clear beneficiary of thew new plans, requiring less tweaking from me compared to the old, so am happy about the change. Others who think they’ve been disadvantaged by the change will obviously not be so happy…

The consolation here is that:
(i) the tools for selecting workout replacements have just improved by an order of magnitude compared to the old tools making the task simpler & faster; short term issue, hopefully, because…
(ii) most importantly, AT will be along “shortly” delivering personalised, custom plans, avoiding once and for all (hopefully!) the inherent limitations of one-size-fits-all training plans, which will obviously always be a compromise and not ideal.


Directly from TR or other users thoughts? I have seen other users make posts that the plans were designed for AT, but nothing from TR saying that. I see official TR postings saying the plans are good without AT.

Not quite true. Many times updates are placed in post ×××× and never make it to post number 1. But realistically when they add 12 people to the closed beta who really cares.


I dont spend to much time here. Raining at the lake and I have nothing better to do. I try not to look.

The plans were not changed for AT. The plans were changed specifically for users not on AT because they felt they had the information needed to update them.


Regardless. My polarized plan got wiped from my calendar and I had to start over. Not pleased.

If a person is new to structured training, there really isn’t any reason to try changing things until they go through at least a base and build block and see how they progressed.

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Fair enough, I understand the sentiment behind that, but in the interest of balance they did add 305 punters (30% bump) to the beta this past week, so the pace isn’t quite that glacial.

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I actually wonder if the overreaction from the users cause more burnout rather than less because they didn’t realize that the prior plans already had some of this backpedalling already built in.

For example, SSBMV2 used to have Spencer (7.7), Lemarck (4.9), and Leconte (5.9) in the final week.

None of the threshhold workouts in General Build were higher than Lemarck throughout. It took until week 7 to get a VO2 Max workout as tough as Spencer.

Now that we see these scores, it seems like everyone wants to continually progress, which may lead to some issues.

I agree 100% this was not a good rollout of an update…maybe they have too many things going, or maybe this is how all the rollouts tend to go. I haven’t been on the forum long enough to gauge.

I failed “Whaleback” today, probably because of the 2min recoveries between intervals. The intervals themselves didn’t seem too hard, but by the time the third one rolled around, I just couldn’t turn the pedals anymore. I do wonder if AT is going to get the nuance between intervals being too hard vs. recoveries not being long enough for the particular rider.

Did you contact support@trainerroad.com about that issue?

Others had similar problems, and TR restored them very quickly after that email, from the cases I read.


It was Spencer +2!!!

I always though that was the toughest week in the TR system. Absolutely brutal. I completed it as written once and felt unstoppable.


That makes sense. I’m relatively new to this, but this is just an area where I really struggle. I can do 3min intervals at 120% fine, and have no problem doing SS work, but these sustained intervals just above threshold just destroy me.

No I did not. Trainer road support is excellent. It just came down to a final straw and it pissed me off enough not to bother. I think I’ve used the software one time since. I’ve really enjoyed the podcast until they start raving about how good AT is and then I get pissed off. I hear randomized selection and then there are many cases of users just getting added because they know people. I’ve been having many life issues so this is far from Tr’s fault. But I do not appreciate the way this has gone down. This was a knee jerk reaction to DJ’s video and then we all signed up in one day and crashed the server. Now months later we have maybe 3% of trainer roads user base in the
BETA. Not 0leased at all with the end user experience and I should not have to waste my time contacting support no matter how good it is. And this is far from the first time that a change has killed my plan

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