For fun, I want a very light 120mm full suspension bike, <22lb. Complete bikes are better deals but don’t have the stuff I’d prefer, so building might be a better option.
Built bikes/frames I’m looking at so far include the Epic 9, Canyon Lux World Cup, and Allied BC40. Canyon doesn’t sell frames. I want to stay with single pivot flex stay designs. What are some others I might consider?
I’ve only had Fox since 2003, but I’m thinking Rockshox Sid Ultimate shock/fork this time. I’m keeping this non-electronic, so no Flight attendant. Any pros/cons vs the Fox Float SL shock and 34 SL fork? (Performance Elite or Factory)
Drivetrain will be mechanical too. (I have elec, it’s great, I want mech for this.) I’ve only had SRAM since 2010 (road, mtb, gravel) so am leaning that way now, likely a Transmission 90 RD and shifter and one of their lighter-weight cassettes and cranks. I haven’t kept up with where Shimano is nowadays. Do they have something I should consider?
Wheel wise, I have a set of Berd Dyneema spoked wheels for my gravel bike and really like them: 1050gm with tape and valves and they pedal, handle, and ride very well. They have a 30mm inner width XC set with similar weight. The reservation I have is the durability of the spokes on an mtb getting dinged from rocks and twigs. How have these held up on mtbs? Roval Control World Cup are similar at 1000gm. How are their carbon spokes durability-wise. What other light wheels are worth considering?
Trails I’ll ride are mainly flow with areas of gnar and small drops, like a lot of the current pro XC circuits have. Right now, I don’t intend to compete, but who knows in the future.
I think the use of mechanical eliminates the Epic 9. Personally I’d stay away from the mechanical transmission stuff if being light is the goal. Some good light weight Shimano or SRAM mechanical group sets are still out there!
What kind of trails and racing is this for? I know some who have gone old school 11 speed mechanical to save weight. You want it light but needs to be capable as well.
Yeah. Good points. Epic 9 looks like it has thru-the-headset routing for the rear brake and dropper but no routing for a mech RD. I have thru-the-headset on one bike already. It’s a bit of a PITA.
A mechanical drivetrain is a little heavier. The 90 mechanical RD, shifter and cable add up to around 580gm. The XX is about 500gm, so diff is ~80gm. Otherwise, the high end cassettes and cranks save a lot. I’ll have to add everything up, but I expect I can hit my weight target with mechanical.
Is the mechanical heavier? Perhaps for sram? I would do mechanical Shimano - IMO superior to electronic drivetrains anyways. I did a bunch of weight comparisons and decided to go with Shimano xt 11 speed because I rode it for years and it is reliably amazing, cheap, and it is lighter than di2 xt 12 speed but I didn’t compare, say, xtr 12 speed or the highest end sram electric because I wanted to balance durability, cost, and weight. My sense has been that sram has gone all in on electronic so they might not be developing lighter high end mech stuff, but honestly don’t follow sram tech at all. But logically mechanical will always be lighter, save for the cable and housing weight, if the manufacturer is making equivalent levels (xtr electric and xtr mech). My hope is that Shimano continues to do so. Their electronic derailleurs are about 200g heavier than mech which far outweighs the cable and housing.
I think if you go back a few years you will find lighter components. 11 speed cassette lighter than 12 etc. I believe xtr m8100 brakes lighter than m8200. Unless money is no object :).
I didn’t realize they dropped the routing for mechanical. Geeze. At least for the foreseeable future I won’t buy a bike that doesn’t support mechanical. It’s two holes in the frame!
The mechanical transmission 90 is really heavy, almost a pound compared to the electric XX transmission.
That said the XX is close to the same weight of the old GX Eagle mechanical. I know people have their opinions on electric vs mechanical but on a MTB shifting is shifting for me. My X01 Eagle has been flawless.
Yeah that’s what I’ve been seeing murmuring about.. I mean throw on an old mechanical set and it’s lighter! Plus 1/4 of the cost. That’s what I’m doing with xt but I don’t follow the sram tech. Mechanical Shimano is fantastic and lighter and I see no reason to use electronic over it. Currently running xt electronic and taking it off.
Only downside of 11 speed Shimano is you need a different free hub body but if you’re getting new wheels HG is often an option.
Electronics plus e bike specs are pushing the weight of components up.
If you don’t need a dropper you can drop another pound too.
If you go with an entire 90 groupset, then maybe. But the mechanical part (shifter, derailleur, and cable) is only 80gm more. They work fine with the lightweight XX cassette and crank, where the majority of the weight is. So, electronic saves 80 gm.
If going mechanical… and weight weenie… why would you want the 90 mechanical over Shimano XTR or SRAM XX1 though? (There’s other lighter options out there, just using those two as examples).
Welp, I added everything up and I’m at 23.5 pounds ready to ride with BC40 frame, saddle, dropper, pedals, grips, and sealant. I’m gonna have to sharpen my pencil (and open my wallet) to get below that. I’m not sure I can get to 22 lb. I need to lose 1.5 lb = 680gm.
I need to investigate Shimano stuff see what I can save there. Canyon Lux WC with Di2 claims 21.65 lb, presumably without pedals. Epic 9 all elec sram with Flight Attendant claims 21.3. Hmmm. I’ll compare the weight of those bike’s components to what I’m looking at.
I can attest that through the headset cable routing with mechanical is a nightmare. I had Cervelo ZFS that I absolutely loved that I built as a weight weenie XC ripper with Shimano mechanical and had so many problems. Also, I’m sure you already know this, but bike companies claimed weights never includes pedals or cages, etc. Throw on pedals, a couple cages, a computer mount, a power meter maybe…and they’re easily 23+. I believe the Epic 9 claimed weight was with ultra light TPU tubes, not sealant.
For what it’s worth - I’ve gotten my Size Large S-Works Epic 8 to just above 23# with Heavy AXS Dropper, XXSL Transmission, Flight Attendant. And that’s ready to ride including pedals, bottle cages, computer mount, etc. (My frame is a '24 in raw carbon)
You need really light wheels, stem, bars to get there though.
Epic 8 Build with AXS Eagle, Lighter Dropper, No Flight Attendant should do it if you pick the right components.
Can you run mechanical with Epic 8? That’s what I’d recommend to OP, with XTR. I saw up above somebody has a Cervelo with mechanical but doesn’t love the shifting, a friend of mine has one running XTR mechanical. No shifting problems that he’s complained about. They’re a cool looking bike too.
That’s my understanding also. The epic 8 s-works frame is lighter, but only supports electronic. You can shave some weight from the regular epic 8 frame by upgrading some hardware and maybe the yolk(if I’m remembering right). Or you can also look for an epic evo 7 frame, very similar geo and saves some weight (but no swat storage)
Mechanical shifting on the Epic 8 isn’t fantastic.
There are a lot of twists and turns to get the cable to the RD, and there are no guides in the frame.
I had mine set up with XT, and it seemed to always want to jump two gears and back down one in one of the cogs. Classic shift cable issue. Nothing that really affected my riding, but it was annoying for such an expensive bike.
I never tried too hard to resolve it, mostly because it was a pain to get set up in the first place.
Yeah. Various Epic models might work, IDK. I don’t see any 8 or 9 Epics with a mechanical RD and no 120mm Epic 8 frames for sale on the site. I kinda like the Allied BC40, though the Epic 9 S-Works might have a small weight advantage. For the BC40 I come up with 3580gm for the frame, fork, and shock no Flight Attendant. Spec says 3490gm for the S-Works Epic 9 frame, shock, and fork with Flight Attendant. The S-Works setup is 90gm less and $2k more than the Allied setup.
I made a couple of minor changes and I’m down to 21.7 lb without pedals (apples to apples with built bikes) and with all the same basic stuff I’ve mentioned: BC40, Sid Ult fork/shock, mechanical sram drivetrain and brakes, either Berd or Roval Control WC wheels, dropper… I’m pretty sure I have everything enumerated, but there’s always spec vs reality.
I like the BC40 as well but if your priority is a weight weenie build, it’s not the frame for it. You gain at least half a pound just from that frame. A ZFS5, Epic, or Anthem will likely be your lightest options.
I disagree. Almost a year now running shimano non electric. Last week I adjusted by a quarter turn for the second time since original installation. Hasn’t missed a beat.
ps: just thought it is worth noting mine is non s-works so not fully internal routing. I bet thah makes a difference.