Legacy Pricing of TR

TrainerRoad Software
805

Legacy at 129 here. Trained with TrainerRoad quite a bit but my life changed a lot in the last few years. I I didn’t cancel because I liked what the company was doing. I’m not riding competitively anymore, I have to 2 kids now and just commute by bike and maybe use TrainerRoad on the weekends, if that.

If the price were to raise, I’d cancel my sub as I don’t see the need for it. I might go back after a few years when the kids are older, maybe on a monthly basis or go somewhere else.

I’m not trying to complain, just sharing my view in a very specific situation.

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806

I dont think that if one really has passion to ride the bike loads of cash is necessary. I have a 10 year old cyclocrossbike, not light nor heavy, nothing posh, just does the job and surely is not on the upper scale pricewise.

I sold my “posh” Kickr and bought cheap rollers, love it, dont need more
I got an Edge 530 for 160€ on Black Friday and have the cheapest Forerunner for 150€. I dont buy expensive clothing or bike parts, just the necessary spares like tires etc one simply needs to exchange once in a while And this way I have lots of fun cycling, for not much money besides an initial investment for a bike. And used 2nd gear is even cheaper.
Yes, I have a Powermeter, but even that I got after 10y of cycling without and I got the cheapest left crank available, no need to spend more or even to get one at all.
And yes, maybe I wont become the most fastest around, but the limit is rather me than my gear.

There is no TR, Systm, Zwift or anything needed to become a good cyclist, this is luxury which helps but you get it done without it too. For example already the Garmin Training plans included with the 530 are absolutely fine. A good book helps too, aint expensive. Online there is plenty of sources for free too.

And btw. I live in a former communist country in Eastern Europe: My wifes uncle wanted to become a cyclist but was forbidden to do so, because his father was not a fan of the regime at that times.
So he worked and earned money, saved money wherever possible, exchanged and traded with folks for bike parts, got smuggled stuff from abroad, reused old parts and built himself a bike - super heavy, absolutely non posh, completely improvised. Even today he still uses it and man, he can be fast.

Such things help keeping all of this real.

So.

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808

One can certainly get that impression but the fact is that all the training tools that were available to Eddy Merckx et al are still available today - for free - except for the bike itself (and adjusted for inflation, a new basic race bike better than anything Merckx ever dreamed of is about the same cost now as it was in 1970).

But there’s more - Even the modern tools (e.g. Cycling computers, HR straps, power meters, indoor trainers, etc and sweet carbon framed bikes too) are available super cheap on the used market as MAMIL’s shed last year’s stuff for the latest and greatest.
TR and all the training apps are great but you can get really really close on your own with free internet & podcast research, $15 for a copy of “Training with Power,” and a pen and white tape to stick the day’s workout on your stem.

The reality is there has never been a cheaper time to train well on the bike. While it is luxurious and a tad easier to buy and use all the bells and whistles, they are not absolutely necessary and certainly don’t have to be new if you do decide to use some of them.

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810

The pricing is tiered but the access to features is not (early access/beta programmes excepted).

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811

It’s not feature tiered

813
  • No, outside of the beta access mentioned, all current paid users get the SAME features, regardless their account history/status.

You are adding a distinction/difference when none currently exists. We all get the same stuff, regardless of our account payment.

Is it possible to split that way? Yes. But it is NOT the case now as you seem to be stating.

2 Likes
815

Ditto. I was a strong user and proponent of my Alternate Base and Build timing (even applied in Specialty one) to deal with my progressing age (around 45 when I needed to apply those changes). I did those alternates successfully for 2 seasons, after having real trouble with the default timing just prior to that.

Fast forward to last March when I got on to AT, and I followed the default 5/1 Base timing and 4/1 Build, while using AT. I had full success and great compliance, all while leading to my all-time peak FTP and W/KG after 6 years with TR.

I won’t claim that the AT changes will work for all older athletes, but I can say it is far better than we had before it. In that light, even though it’s not the “masters plans” that were teased only ago, I think it delivers at least part of that solution.

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816

Sure, I have no idea. But based on what I have experienced along the way, some tools/features are “switchable” in the sense that they can be controlled on an “independent” basis.

My experience comes from getting some beta access at a couple times over the years. I have no idea if that “sticks” and is the way it continues once something gets “full release”, of if it gets “absorbed” in a way that no longer leaves it possible to switch separately.

Again, even if that internal structure exists or doesn’t, I guess I don’t see how it really affects the discussion.

Maybe? But we really have no idea. It could be that the accounting side (billing) has no connection to users services (features). We simply don’t know. And even it it IS there, still doesn’t change the current state from what I see.

819

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820

Yeah, “tiered” is a misleading term in this context and not applicable at all at present, IMO.

I get that there are aspects of the discussion ARE appropriate with that term, just not right now in the current state of the app.

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822

PL was 7.2 and I failed midway through a 7.8 PL workout (week 4). AT dropped my next SS to PL 5.9 workout then a 6.1 on Saturday. Week 5 I completed a 7.8 PL workout and finished the week completing a 8.4 PL workout. So I had a struggle, AT gave me easier workouts that week and I felt refreshed enough to tackle Week 5. Granted, AT had a gentler ramp rate but I used AT to chose harder workouts in Week 5 because I felt good.

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824

I was just answering your question would you leave…I would. In fact this debate has actually given me the confidence to cancel my legacy subscription as I’m essentially paying for something I don’t really use… out of loyalty, for fear of losing something when actually there are better (IMO) options out there. It looks like I’m not the only one.

1 Like
826

Wow, 810 comments in a week.
I may not be saying anything new here, however, I did want to share my 2 cents with TR.
I would strongly prefer for Legacy pricing to not change and there to be one simple pricing model, one price gets everything.
Disclaimer: I am on a lower legacy pricing level having been with TR about 4 years I think.
I should also note that I will be 47 soon and I am doing cycling for general fitness and if I can get a bit faster that would be nice. I have never and will never “race”. I enter gran fondos and cycle with a club in the spring and summer. I am a mid volume rider. I also started using Dialed Health this fall and like it for general fitness and good idea as a masters athlete. Based on this I am not at the pointy end of things and probably don’t need the latest and greatest if you will. Probably just regular riding at a mid volume level with some variety is good enough for my situation. This may suggest I would support a tiered approach, however, changing the current model would leave a bad taste in my mouth. I also find with tiered models there is usually one feature you want in the higher tier (probably designed that way) that almost forces you up to a higher level, or, you just don’t pay at all.
So, if pricing went up and or legacy pricing was maintained but current features state was frozen I can see myself:

  • Staying as is at my legacy pricing and feature level (no additional revenue for TR)
  • Starting to shop around and check out and trial other services (e.g. Fascat, Zwift, Systm, Rouvy, RGT, Fullgaz, …) (no immediate revenue impact for TR)
  • Possibly canceling TR for other services if pricing is similar (reduction in revenue for TR)
  • Possibly only subscribing to a service for a portion of the year (e.g. 6 months). This is a costly sport and subscription services can ad up and I am not a fan of them in general (i.e. whoop). (Could net same or less revenue to TR on annual basis)

I will continue to use and enjoy TR and AT for now and stand by to hear of any changes.

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827

TR don’t offer any free services (apart from initial trial) so wouldn’t have access to it unless somebody is a paying subscriber. And while people may give their data for free to Strava, Garmin and TP (though I think a better way of putting it is that they’re exchanging their data for a service), I’m sure those companies won’t give it to TR for free.

I’m just speculating, seems the team on the podcast quite often pull out facts from their own data to support the point they’re making so just guessing it’s a valuable resource for them and that more people moving to only using TR for periods of the year might undermine some of that value.

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828

IIRC on the Feb 2021 podcast TR data and ML were cited for dropping SSB HV from 5 to 4 days of SS. Prior to that I made the case that it should be dropped down to 2, or 3 max, of SS. Using the TR number of hours in HV plans, going strongly pyramidal I’ve seen better fitness gains and overall fitness. Counterintuitively my ‘VO2 to Threshold relationship’ went up dramatically when I started doing (off-the-shelf plan) more zone2 and fewer intervals. At least from where I sit, AT seems unaware of all that. And as an aside, over five years ago Coggan laid out the evidence that the VO2-to-threshold relationship should be individualized for everyone, not just masters. Personally I find a lot of value using iLevels and WKO, but its not for everyone. Good on TR for coming up with a system (AT) that supports individualization.

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829

Curious how a monthly subscription to TR works. I’ve always been on the yearly subscription.

If on the monthly subscription and, as an example, you “take a break” for the summer, do you keep all the data accumulated over the time you were active so when you re-start the subscription in the winter, you just pick up where you left off? Or do you have to start over as if you’re a brand new subscriber?

TIA

830

Yes! I totally appreciate the feedback.

You’re right, there’s always more to do.

When we release features, we make decisions on “will this add value”? The tough part about that is there is always more value to release.

For AT, we are 100% sure based on our metrics that there is a huge improvement for the vast majority of our athletes (even masters riders). We even had a 70+ year old rider who was stuck at an FTP for years raise it 20 watts and win a national championship and he credits AT.

When we look at what features to build, we think about how big of an impact it will make. For running, we know how many of our athletes do run activities based on Garmin/Strava sync. It’s about 20%. So a decent amount.

For AT, we know that 89% of our athletes are using some part of it.

For AT work, we had to decide how to prioritize features against other ones. We made the decision that AT was needed to have the foundation of the other features you’re talking about (different duration per day of week, different intensity per day of week, different rest/recovery periods, automatically changing intra-week intensity based on performance).

We could have waited to launch AT until we did all of those features. But if we did that, we’d have the same people on the forum complain that we didn’t get anything out (which was happening just before AT launched because it was such a big feature and took a while).

For the planning team, their current priority is to get AI FTP Detection out. We chose this because of the implementation lift (relatively easy, hard ML part was already done) and the number of athletes we see in our database has improper FTPs because they don’t assess. And we know that 75% of the athletes that do assess are very interested in using our AI FTP Detection.

Please PM these to me and I’ll ask more questions and/or we can do a call.

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831

I read most of the thread but … 812 posts so might have missed some.

I am on $99/ year and have been a member for a number of years. There have been times where I have had ~6 months gaps when having a new baby etc. but have kept my membership because I am grandfathered. I would have canceled otherwise and restarted when I was back training. I also like supporting TR in general because it seems like a great company, which I cant really say about any company other than my favorite café locally.
BUT!
I do see that the value I am getting for $99/year is INCREDIBLE. I have had some experience with personal coaches, and those plans were $100-200 per month and for me TR was the better option.

If Nate were to provide one or two tiers of pricing that would be fine with me but I would prefer to just have one level so I can try stuff like group workouts. I don’t use it much and wouldn’t pay for it individually, but I like having the option in my subscription. I would rather pay more to have the new features expedited and quality of existing improved.

There are always cost limitations for each person, so if the TR cost changed to $500/year I would need to weigh the options but at the current costs $180-$200 a year for TR i would have no problem losing my status to see new features implemented faster and better and support TR.

Love what you guys are doing, and the open communication to the community.

*I also believe that Nate wasn’t trying to mislead anyone by saying the cost wouldn’t increase. Times change and I can’t imagine any other company providing this level of transparency and apologizing that they may be changing what they had previously promised.

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832

Everything is there, you don’t lose your history. I did a couple of winter seasons in 2014/15 and 2015/16 and can see my workouts and data in the calendar. Obviously you start on a new plan, etc. Not sure how AT will handle it.

1 Like
833

Good point. Interestingly, Apple ended up paying a $113 million dollar consumer fraud settlement over some of those “bugs”.