To repost what I posted ~800 posts and 14 months ago…
The idea was, as someone has already clarified, to assume an FTP increase. If you’re an advanced user who knows almost to the watt where their FTP is and are using the test to determine TTE or something, in the notes it says:
If you have taken time off, or know you can easily beat the targets or just feel good during the workout you can adjust the workout difficulty manually.
Not sure how much clearer I can be - if people don’t read either the original article, this thread or the workout text then I’m sure there may be issues, but bearing in mind these are just workouts I threw together in order to try this kind of testing I’m not really trying to cover that eventuality.
Oh and re the ~25 minutes for FTP, that also came from early in the thread where people were trying to work out where the line could be drawn and the number drawn out of a hat was ‘around 25 minutes?’ - possibly due to the fact that the baseline test goes into the ramp at 25 minutes. TBH I’m not a fan of the Baseline test, apart from to be used once to give someone an idea of what they’re looking to do/feel next time (which is the likely goal of it), so we probably should have based things on progression 1 which hits a good 35 minutes before you’re into the meat of the ‘ftp’ section. I can edit the workout text, but again if people are relying on that they should probably read the article instead!
The only point I’m driving at, guys, is that we have a user who tested for 25min and took the average power as his FTP, and that is not strictly the intent of the protocol. There is a data analysis component of it that helps ensure presumed FTP is FTP. If you go in, bang out 25 min, and set your FTP, odds are it’ll be set higher than it should be. That’s it.
Just trying to provide clarification, not criticizing anyone’s work. The workout itself is fine if people understand the intent of the protocol.
If you’re like me, and low cadence just “hits harder”, and if standing makes you drop your cadence, then you might shorten your TTE. This won’t affect your FTP though.
For the past two months I’ve been doing 3 sweetspot workouts each week, ensuring I keep those sweetspot efforts within a certain RPE range and HR range. Happens to be 150-160bpm for me, this is below LTHR. I estimated my FTP using the data accumulated from those two months of sweetspot, e.g., if sweetspot efforts are around 90% FTP then FTP should be around a certain number of watts. It’s crude, but any less crude that the ramp test? I don’t think so.
Anyway, this past Monday I completed a ramp test, just to see how far away my own estimated FTP is from what the ramp test suggests. Ramp test was 320w, my estimated FTP was 303w.
Today I decided to do Kolie’s Baseline to get an even better idea of my FTP since I’m highly skeptical of the number that is derived from ramp tests. I managed to average 305w over the 40mins. I reckon I could have done 310w but I’m certain I could not have done 320w.
In summary, I think my TTE is at least 40mins and it looks like if ramp test is any indicator of FTP, then it’s probably more like 73% x MAP rather than 75%, for me at least. It also feels like doing sweetspot based on RPE and HR isn’t a bad approach. The Baseline assessment feels like a more intense and long sweetspot interval and it’s really not that bad at all.
Maybe, but for some people (myself included), the percentage can vary wildly based on what sort of training you’re doing at the time. Which is why it’s such a poor estimator to use - if one does an anaerobic block, the ramp test might say ftp has shot up, even though it’s stayed the same…
Yes… I personally am thankful that the pain of ramp testing is only a distant memory at this point. Never again for me
Not sure how well it works in practice, but isn’t the point of the ramp to deplete the anaerobic capacities, so that you can find the maximum aerobic power?
Maybe I’m a bit thick, but is this KM Baseline workout available in TR somewhere, or is it something you have to create manually via workout builder? Also, presumably one doesn’t do this in ERG mode?
(Sorry, long thread with a lot of great info–just can’t find this one crucial piece.)
Pretty sure someone posted a Seiler method for finding MAP in the hard start VO2 max thread showing you can deplete and find MAP with a 5 minute paced TT
There are opinions on both sides of the fence. So do what you like.
If you do it more than once I’d suggest doing both (ERG and non-ERG) for your own experience and comparison (while others might just say the opposite and point out that testing protocol/setup should stay similar)…
Strictly speaking, if you want to follow KM’s actual protocol, do not use erg mode.
In my opinion (only), and as someone who still uses erg sometimes for steady state efforts, is it the end of the world if you do? No. But I do the test in standard mode.
Use ERG and toggle the intensity based on how you feel, you get to the same place physically as thinking “I’m pacing this ok, I can go a 1-2% harder” etc. What matters is the ‘feeling’ that keeps being mentioned in the thread.
I have done both, it makes no difference to how I perform in the test…
