JOIN cycling app

Agree completely. Depending on how I’m feeling, I’ll sometimes repeat intervals to get additional time in zone, but it’s nice to view it as a choice and not feel bad about “failing” a workout when I don’t hit every interval.

1 Like

Indeed and because of the Z2 sandwiching when you’re done even the hardest workouts don’t feel so bad anymore

1 Like

In the end it’s just a label nothing is going to happen with that. Garmin cares for it’s detected training effect and join for TiZ.

Apart from that and in general I find it pretty weird that some training programs call all effort above threshold “VO2max”, even when one can often times just keep nose breathing while passing though them. Join is one example of that.

1 Like

Imho, it’s fairly simple. That’s not a vo2max workout. 6 minutes TiZ is just way to little to call it a proper Vo2max workout.
This feels way more like a workout with some intensity thrown into it, to get you to learn how these feel with some fatigue in the legs.

You did 35mins total time above your threshold. Those minutes are very taxing on the body. I totally get why this would be classified as “vo2max”.
I’d also argue that a .85 IF ride should definitely not be considered an “high end of endurance pace” ride. Especially if almost 25% of that ride was at or above threshold.

One side note, it’s all about how we name things. In the end it doesn’t matter that much, there’s still plenty to be gained from rides like this . But the idea of endurance rides to me, is a longer ride at a moderate intensity that you can fairly quickly recover from. Just looking at the TiZ statistics for this ride, I’d say that it would take a fair bit longer to recover from then a “true” endurance ride.


The first 2 minutes are really anaerobic (125-135%), the rest of the 4 minutes tempo are much harder than it would appear

Wouldn’t call them simple after 3 continuous days and threshold the previous day. Its categorised as VO2max in the join library and described as hard in the workout description.

In isolation I would agree it wouldn’t be a hard workout and categorising as Vo2max is a stretch.

Anyways I complete it as prescribed and rate 6 RPE as per join suggestion so not too bad.

Its a hangover from TR where I maxed out of my AIFTP and Vo2max levels where the word “VO2max” filles me with dread :grinning:

1 Like

Wasn’t trying to call the workout itself simple. Just the reason why they would plan it after a hard day.

I get that. For me, around level 7 vo2max, I would really start to struggle to complete. Join seems a bit more forgiving in terms of intensity. Did have some good results while using Join which made me think that we actually don’t have to do that much intensity to see some real progress, when you do enough volume.

I have been preparing a two day cycling holiday of 250kms and 2500m of positive ascent and JOIN has helped me a lot. I accomplished my rides in less time than I thought it would take me and I was mostly in HR Z1-2. For amateurs at least this is an excellent application. The flexibility part is the best part of all.

I have also been trying it in combination with the FoodCoach app and it has helped me loose some weight.

I am looking for a strength training and weightlifting app that can play nicely with JOIN taking into account the training that JOIN provides. Any suggestions?


Make a feature suggestion


As I’m not preparing for anything in particular I saw your post and thought that preparing for a cycling holiday should give me an all-round increase in fitness. Si I put in the data for a 7 day holiday starting on 1st Aug, 7 days, 900k, 7000m and set my athletic type to intermediate. I was surprised to say the least when the plan it gave me dropped my hours I’m currently doing by roughly 60% and as a result my level was forecast to DECREASE from 18.8 to 13.4. I’m very confused as I don’t need an app to detrain me as I’m quite capable of doing that myself.

1 Like

Maybe contact support. I tried inputting the same and it basically keeps me on the same level but I am level 35 already and don’t have more time to train

Well, it increased my level, but I started from a very low level due to injury. I was though amazed by the fact that it trained me in such a way that I finished my event in HR Z1-2 and not very tired at all. It seems that it delivers what you ask from it, since cycling holiday means that your goal is to finish without being completely exhausted, which was the case for me. You can try the same data but choosing multi-day race to see what happens.

1 Like

I hear you. It does this to me too. It’s like it doesn’t believe you can do the hours you’ve given it. When it does this, I increase my hours for a week or two (just do a 3 hour ride on a 90 min day, for example) and it seems to catch on.

1 Like

I’m gonna give it another go, my “Achievable” V02 workout this morning darn near killed me… I’m starting to dread Mondays and Wednesdays on TR, those are my intensity days and they’re starting to get really hard, and I don’t FEEL like I’m any stronger for the wear.


The new xert forcast plan thing did the same initially which surprised people (not sure if they changed it by now). We need to be careful using these automated plan builders. They tend to do exactly what we ask for which could mean that getting fit enough for event X in the most effecient way could mean to detrain by 25%.
While a human associates “becoming better” with doing any training plan, even if that’s technically not required.
Always check the projected training load.
Especially also with join. Which seems very flexible, but more often than not in a way that the user needs to be flexible enough to avoid detraining.

1 Like

I’ve come across the same problem. If I tell a program my “goal event” is a 45 minutes cyclocross race with very little climbing, it’ll make a plan that’ll let me “complete the event”. Which obviously takes very little training. There isn’t really a way to say how competitive I want to be in that event.

I’m sticking with the fixed-length build plans now, not using a target event.

1 Like

I have been meaning to write a bit about my experience with join having just completed my most recent plan and done my target event (the Fred Whitton challenge). It’s my second year on join and whereas last year I followed it fairly closely, this year I had an idea of the things I needed to work on for the event, in particular the type of climbs and descents I needed to practice on - there were technique issues I wanted to work on as well as just riding to power so it was essential to do actual hills.

Broadly speaking I planned my own (hilly) weekend rides and let join fill in the gaps during the week. I was also a bit more flexible in looking at join wanted and doing something equivalent rather than following it to the letter (e.g. matching time in zone on tempo sessions rather than doing the exact intervals or using zwift pace groups for endurance rides). That has worked really well for me - I was far more comfortable in the event than I expected. I also did a club time trial last week and got my 2nd best 20 minute power ever.

Trying to decide what plan to choose next, but I think I need some recovery first!


Always felt like a video game for me and I reached the end boss. At 48 I definitely maxed out my AIFTP and progression levels had reached a point where I would never select a rating of anything less than Hard.

I got very fit over 5 - 15 mins and was nice killing some local climbs with that fitness but was never sustainable unless I took a break and started from a lower level.

1 Like

Need some help understanding what JOIN is doing. I’ve been following a Gravel Race plan for the last seven weeks and have seen a nice progression in hours and intensity / time in zone. However, the plan going forward does not continue to increase hours, yet the Join Score increases, and next week Build Up is more endurance after this week of recovery (four of this week’s hours are Z1 bike packing).