I haven’t been on the forum in a while, but I’ve been using TR since the pandemic. Lately, it feels like the platform’s gone stale. The last real update was the whole Red Light Green Light thing, which honestly hasn’t made any difference to my workouts. The podcast’s been pared down to a skeleton crew, updates are mostly bug fixes, and Nate’s gone MIA. Starting to wonder if it’s still worth the investment.
I’ve followed plans pretty closely; my FTP is about the same as it was when I started. I like the routine, and having a calendar of sorts that auto uploads to my Garmin, but apart from that. It really feels like I can progressive overload a SS, Vo2, Z4 workout on my own.
This. Once you ‘get it’ and learn to listen to your body, it’s not rocket science. Fast Talk had a podcast asking pros about their training, most of them did about 5 workouts (or minor variations on).
What TR is great for is the beginner with no clue where to start, it’s massively improved in that regard since the older days where the plans were pretty basic. Even in those days the value was added in the workout text, which gave lots of great tips and advice (not sure what that’s like these days). If you have an idea of all the concepts in those tips and know that the week after 5x10 should be ‘some variation to get more than 50 minutes in zone’, you might be ready to leave the nest.
I should add that I’m not able to see the calendar improvements etc so there may be great value adds there, but I’m using both TrainingPeaks and Intervals and find the latter’s calendar to have equal to or better features than those I used to like about TR’s
Like said above. It’s a great learning tool.
Like the IPhone, once it’s there you can make little improvements here and there. Great when new but it’s old hat now.
If you think you still have some room to grow and need something a little different to keep you motivated, you could consult with a coach.
They could have some ideas that TR can’t offer.
TR saves me so much cognitive load. Could I figure out a workable plan on my own? Sure. But I bet the effort of doing so would cause me to miss workouts. Just comparing how easy it is to stay on track cycling vs. strength training is night and day and well worth the sub for me.
The podcast is free to anyone and having a CEO that interacts like Nate once did is not really all that common, so I’m not sure those are two things you can put in when weighing the pros and con of investing. Like what are your other options and do you feel like as part of the cost you’d be getting those from another service? Not likely.
The lack of updates other than bug fixes can go either way, changing something in the UI can often backfire.
As for actual new features, yeah they have gone kind of stale other than the hints on the podcast to something coming.
But since you mentioned investment, did you sign up during the pandemic to use the product as is or did you sign up to use the product because of what it one day could be? I’m not sure I’ve ever done the later. Yes our monthly or annual payments go to researching new features and implementing them but really you are just paying for what you are using at the end of the day.
From what I understand they have done a lot on the support side of things from just making sure someone gets back to you quickly about an app question to their new onboarding where they will help you go over your history and make sure you get setup right. Having signed up over 10 years ago myself and you 5ish now we both missed that so not something we’d see but it is something they have added.
Dropped the ball? Yes I think on somethings for sure they absolutely have. I don’t even really care about WLV2 but I’m still like where is it already? I’m sure there are other things but might as well stick the the one that is going to rouse the rabbles the most ;)…
I don’t really see how any of that factors into the investment though, the workout player is what you are paying for, along with the library, and the plans. If you think you can do your own plan and you think you can write the workouts and have a means to do them on another platform or your Garmin, then yeah the investment may not be worth it any longer for you.
mjw0 just chimed in with the cognitive load thing as I was typing this and was going to finish with that. That is what the investment is worth it to me, I don’t have to waste any time writing workouts or a plan and the player just works.
I would not say they have dropped the ball, just that TR is not the best option for absolutely everyone. It’s great for many people but there are also athletes who prefer to roll their own plan.
Its easy to take it for granted, but when I actually stop to think about it, I’m amazed that even though I haven’t done an FTP test for 2 years I can just hop on my trainer now and TrainerRoad can give me a workout that will push me right to my limit but I can complete.
It’s like magic.
It’s also my favourite workout player by far.
Agree that structuring a plan isn’t rocket science but great that I don’t have to think about it.
I do think that the move to adaptive training and plan builder has taken a little bit away from people who like to be a bit more involved in their training - I hope that whatever TR have cooking can remedy that somewhat and keep those people engaged.
The lower mental load and if everything is going well the lack of second guessing yourself is huge. Being able to just hop on and go is a huge benefit to platforms like TR.
Waaaay back in the early 2000s I used to go to a certain coaches Computrainer classes. I think he was charging $10 a class. After a while I realized I could buy my own Computrainer and use Golden Cheatah to create and play workouts for less than I was paying for those classes over a year or so. I took what I knew from the classes, read all the books and combed the Google Wattage Forum (who remembers that dumpster fire?) for any details about creating my own plans.
I quickly learned it’s a lot energy and time to develop your own plans, create the .erg files, and modify plans as the year progressed. Just as important was believing in my plans - the self doubt would creep in when things weren’t going well. Golden Cheetah was wonky and updates were sporadic but it’s open source and free (it’s still available too). Someone even created an Erg Library where you could download .erg files which made things easier but it was limited. After a few years, I ended up paying for a generic and static plan from a coach but still needed to create or find the erg files.
TR isn’t perfect but it’s really good when I think back to those dark ages. I pay TR for the privilege of not thinking very hard about my plans, for a solid interface & workout player, and for not doing FTP tests. Most everything beyond that is just icing on the cake for me.
I dont think they’ve dropped the ball, they give me what I need for the money I pay: a good workout library, and a good calendar and, if I want it, a training plan. They are very good value for the monthly fee. It’s just so easy to load workouts and use the calendar. Plus the addition of strength training is also great.
Do I think the system could improve? Yes, massively, but there really isn’t any better option out there at the moment. I dont entirely trust the AI and have felt my best this year when I stopped trying to follow a plan, however I am aware that is likely a reflection on my chaotic life rather than TR.
Even with the big issues for me (eg outdoor work not contributing to progression levels, the plans not adapting around additional riding, the inability to move recovery weeks, the overly strict adherence to a 7 day week with 3 on 1 off, and even the annoying stuff like no ‘alternatives’ option for outdoor workouts and no option to just select simple structure when training outdoors) it is still worth the money.
I also still enjoy the podcast and look forward to it each week, but I really wish they would have some normal people on more often. Don’t get me wrong, it’s fascinating listening to Keegan etc, but I would really love it if they had someone more relatable on every now and again. It would be particular interesting if they took an a few truly average riders and followed their training over an extended period of time.
What kind of revolutionary or life changing updates were you expecting to see?
I think it’s pretty natural for someone to follow a training platform or program for 5 years and feel bored of it, particularly if the results are the same as when they started. In that case, I really don’t think it’s a “TR dropping the ball” problem..
I totally agree. I used to enjoy listening to Nate, Jon, and Chad talking about their goals, challenges and local races. Like when they dabbled in CX for a season, then took on a TT challenge, or races the local crit series. Nate - where are you bro? Need you back on the podcast. Chad? Er… nevermind.
I also enjoyed the short lived “Successful Athletes” podcast- where Jonathan would interview everyday Joe TR users. It was interesting learning about how amateur cyclists, with jobs and family responsibilities, stay motivated and found success.
Training platforms are like training. Initially you see big leaps and improvements and then over time the rate of improvement declines as a platform matures. The question for an individual is whether the platform still meets their needs.
If you are not getting faster, then the question to be asked is whether that’s because you’ve reached your potential on the hours you have available, or it’s a limitation of the platform for you. There’s only so many levers you can pull in training, and platforms try and pull the right ones at the right time, on your behalf. Once all the levers are being pulled optimally, it’s a case of how do we improve the the user experience, to enable them to get the most out of it.
Agreed @PhatNinja - whatever happened to the Successful Athletes” podcast? While the podcasts with the pros are interesting, it would be great have some more non-pro’s on as well to balance things out. I think this is where the OG podcast really worked well. All the TR folks were amateur racers, some more fit or more experienced than others, but still all amateurs looking to improve their racing and their results.
Don’t get me wrong, Jonathan does a great job as a host, but we lost something good when the in-person amateur racer podcast faded (thanks Covid).
EDIT - OK, Amber was a retired pro and Ivy was a pro at the time. I miss those two on the podcast!
What’s missing is any sign of evolution in the science and research behind optimizing athlete development. The way cyclists trained five years ago is not the way they train today. Countless other podcasts and platforms are discussing new findings and approaches, while TR seems to have stood still. The training plans haven’t changed. The workouts haven’t changed. The podcast content hasn’t changed. There’s no visible investment in improving the product or integrating the latest performance science. That’s concerning. Many athletes appear to have plateaued or moved on. Anecdotally, my Strava feed used to be filled with TR workouts from other riders, now I see almost none.
I’ve noticed this too, but I kind of wonder if it’s just a sign that I’ve been at this a long time and most of the people I know/follow are far enough along in their journey that they just do a lot of group rides and Zwifting.