Yes, I was doing 8-12 hours a week using the TR LV to dictate my interval efforts.
On Join I also did 8-12 hours a week and just followed what it said to do, I would take the intervals outdoors on occassion, and kept my long weekend ride in rotation.
I think the flexibility of Join, while great for most, was a detriment to my training. Having a calendered plan helps to keep me on track.
Finding motivation to do 8-12 hours/week is huge for me, so whatever it takes is my advice. Without looking at specifics its hard to comment beyond what you’ve provided so far. Something seems amiss, FWIW.
I may give it another shot after my next race at the end of May, I understand a one off power drop could be a number of things (namely less sleep with 2 month old twins) - but I’m hesitant because I will be starting my training for Big Sugar soon and I know TR works (for me, at least).
That in itself could be a large part of it. Less sleep generally = less adaptations
whatever works, keep doing it. I’m basing all of my observations about different training styles on multi-year data/results, not “1 (month) and done.” You’ve already seen what some of us already knew - endurance training is a volume based game, and aerobic fitness can be obtained by low intensity which IMHO becomes more important if you have a lot of life stress. For someone with a lot of stress, I’ve personally found those low-intensity workouts to be better than creating more stress in a handful of SS/over-under/vo2 workouts per week.
Yes all fair points, although I would question how much influence on your fitness that additional z2 volume had. I would suggest significant.
I haven’t taken a TrainerRoad plan to the point where I have felt burnt out, but maybe that is possible. My point is less that sticking religiously to a Join plan wouldn’t make you faster, and more that ‘not’ sticking to a TrainerRoad plan is problematic. Yes, the training is adaptive, but things break down once you do enough non-TR volume. Mainly due to the progression levels and subsequent impact of those levels only being influenced from TR workouts.
My gut feeling is that if you do 100% of a prescribed plan and do it all indoors, TR will be more/as effective to make you faster. Join works really well if you need flexibility and are experienced to manage a lot of training outside of the specific preserved workouts.
Just FYI - I added that Z2 work to TR plans too.
I’m still not clear what you mean that one is overall more effective than the other regardless of which plan or volume you chose indoors or outdoors, but I’m glad you’ve found the one that works for you!
Only 12 watts with 2 month old twins sounds like a win to me!
I’ve got a one month old and I’m hemorrhaging fitness despite being able to fit in more than maintenance on the bike. The sleep hit is real.
I tested that with TR. All indoors was inferior. Repeatedly. Winter and summer. If you understand the fundamentals it makes sense. Why do indoor training companies push so hard on better cooling indoors? Nowhere has precision been shown to be more effective. If it had been established, the smart trainer companies would be trumpeting the results and pros would abandon training outside.
I think you’re missing my point.
I didn’t say training indoors is more effective. I said that if you do a lot of training/riding outdoors, TrainerRoad loses its way.
Sustained and focused training with TR got me very fit there I was doing efforts like the below at 67kg. That was a few years ago where I was something like 4.6 w/kg at 47.
Like the user mentioned above the AIFTP dropped 10/12 watts as soon as started with JOIN. Its stabilized a bit now and I’m willing to play the long game and see where I end up.
Probably less watts but better well being.
I know people get tired of hearing this, but do a real test. I’d suggest Kolie Moore Test, but at the least, a 20 min test. Don’t let AI FTP hold you back or burn you out. Know your real zones. And don’t aim for the number AI gave you when you test. Just do your best. Worst case, you got a great workout and now you know you are training in the intended zone.
Ok, you can all downvote me now 
@Pbase Downvote you? You can’t give me orders. You’re not my supervisor!
Can someone remind me how to swap out Join’s FTP test for a KM test? When Join has planned the FTP test, do a KM test instead, pretend it was the suggested workout, and change you FTP to the KM test one afterwards? I think not ticking “suggested workout” makes it just pop up again, right?
I don’t do JOIN FTP tests, I do SYSTM Half Monty. When I change the FTP in JOIN (even honestly if I just change it by 1 and change it back) then the FTP test in JOIN disappears and gets replaced with a normal workout. No idea if that’s how you’re supposed to handle it really, but I just do that and live life.
I just do them randomly when I feel like I’m improving or when it’s been a while. I usually plan the 1x30 threshold ride just to have a placeholder in Join, but then do the workout on my head unit.
Yes, but what I meant was how to get rid of the planned one from Join. If you ignore it or change it to another workout, it’ll just come up a few days later again. I can’t quite remember what I did last time.
I’ll go with jcolb’s solution of just changing my FTP by a bit.
Interesting. I’ve never had that happen. I just delete them. Maybe it’s because I’m doing KM tests and then updating my FTP?
From what jcolb said above, seems like if you updaye your FTP, Join assumes you did a test and won’t plan one for you. Usually they pop up every three months or so.
My FTP basically never changes, so I rarely test, lol.
Yeah, he and I are doing the same thing. We just use different test protocols.
