I might be totally wrong, lol. But that’s what I gather from Rohan’s answer on the Join forum, and what would make sense to me.
@splash That’s how I think of them too.
Yes, makes sense
I’ve just started with Join, and with the LSRF plan, I’ve had/have upcoming:
Fri: Tempo
Sat: Z2/3
Sun: VO2 pyramid
Mon: off
Tue: SS/Z2
Weds: Tempo
Thurs: Z2
Fri: off
Sat: VO2
Sun: Threshold
I’m in my mid-50s and this feels like it’s too much intensity, I’ve overcooked myself too many times on TR SS plans, and I’m worried about burnout. Did I just pick the wrong plan for my goals? Should I be doing something to replace some of this with more Z2?
Hmm, have you tried tinkering with the post-ride RPE after you associate it with a workout? I think it should tone them down if you mark something higher than they expect.
(And to associate a completed ride with a planned ride, just look below the planned workout for the Strava/Garmin/etc ride that came in and hit the “How’d it go?” button and make sure button the “Suggested workout?” button is selected. It’ll ask for an RPE there.)
Yes, I’ve given feedback on the rides I’ve done so far. It did tell me today that it was going to adjust things down, which resulted in the prescribed week you see above starting Monday.
@Pbase also adjust your availability. I’ve found that even VO2 and threshold workouts have less time in zone than TR, so are less stressful and easier to recover from. The three days on one day off seems to be JOIN’s pattern for those that can train every day.
I’ve done that too. Doesn’t it look like far too much intensity though? Almost no pure Z2 rides…only 1 in 10 days.
Things adjust and update right away. Is there room to tick the RPE up a few notches?
And for the VO2Max workouts and such: it’ll frequently give me 2+ hour endurance rides spiced up a little bit with an interval of 5x1 minute VO2 max with 4 minute rests or something like that, so while it does ramp up the intensity it doesn’t seem to add that much fatigue.
Without seeing the actual workouts it is tough to tell. I think it’s also a difference in philosophy - TR seems to be either HIIT or Z2 whereas JOIN seems to sprinkle in a little intensity on some of the easier days. If you really feel you need just a Z2 ride, then do it and let JOIN adapt.
Join workouts have less intervall time than TR ones, there is always quite a bit of endurance in them. But if you think its too mucj, just do less intervals, or none. It’s ok, the plan will update. Or if you feel tired, just skip the day. I see the Join workouts more as suggestions - “in your ride today, do these intervals”. But if I don’t feel up for it, I don’t do it. Join doesn’t know the rest of my life, or how tired I am. You have to take care of that yourself. And also, its a program. It won’t get annoyed if it has to change the plan often. Just do your rides, and let it deal with the rest.
I’ve also noticed JOIN tends to start quite heavy when returning or starting fresh (I’ve just come back and got 3 quite tough workouts in a row sat-mon), but then the rest of this week is a few easier endurance rides with little intensity, and a few intervals on Sunday, then more rest. So I think it balances out as it gets settled. And you can always just choose something else to do if you don’t fancy what it’s serving.
Thanks for the feedback everyone. I’ll give your suggestions a try, but I have to admit, if I have to constantly tweak the workouts and game the system by overstating my RPE, I’m not sure I see how this is any different than what I already have to do with TR.
Looking at the description of the LSRF plan, I could see how it would give you the workouts you have. “This plan will make you ride fast but in a fun way. In a period without any races or events this plan is a mix of getting better without repetitive boring intervals. Make every workout your own challenging solo event!”. That to me reads of a more dynamic, more tempo/vo2, less endurance plan.
I’d personally opt for something else - such as FTP builder or stamina builder to get your feet wet.
What I see in that plan is that you don’t have a single “easy” day. I’m surprised how many people are saying things like “that’s an easy ride, it just has some VO2 mixed in”.
Thanks for the feedback. I assumed the LSRF plan meant “I don’t have an event, so no need to destroy me”. I picked it because I thought it would be easier than one meant to push up FTP or stamina. I’ll take a look at those.
From a general perspective the intensive endurance workouts are the easiest workouts in JOIN (I guess you could say the few flat lined endurance rides are easier but I’ve never gotten one of those). You can go exploring yourself in the app to see all the workouts and what they would be for your configured FTP, or to even just do one of them and see how you feel.
Another thought…I think most folks who pick a Fondo plan are probably just trying to finish it without dying. If your goal is performance, would you be better off with a one day road race plan? (I’m definitely not a Join expert, just thinking out loud).
I thought that also but I really don’t have any “A” events til a series I’m doing starting in January. I figured “easier” might be a good approach without burning out before I want to start training for that series. I was even thinking the gravel plan since it’s mostly gravel for the cross Florida ride.
I tell JOIN I’m doing a 4h ~4 RPE each Saturday, and let it fill in the blanks around that (with Tues/Fri off due to other commitments). So if Saturday was the day you can do a long endurance ride, I’d just put that in manually myself. It’d probably then put in a bit of interval work on the Sunday.
I mostly see it as a way to ensure I’m doing a mix of things, but also something I don’t have to think too hard about if my schedule changes up. It’ll fit in some intensity around whatever else I’ve done. But I am probably odd in that I don’t have any events at all, so I’m not concerned about a particular peak or timeline, I’m just wanting to generally improve my fitness on the bike.