Is my KICKR Snap miscalibrated?

[anthonylane]

Help. I’m almost embarrassed to be starting a thread such as this, but I’m at my wit’s end.

I’m starting to question the accuracy of my trainer. Having since “upgraded” to a Wahoo KICKR Snap (bought used from what appeared to be a reputable seller), my FTP has dropped some 30w in comparison to what I was training at on my old dumb trainer. Power there was measured virtually with a Kinetic inRide.

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I’m finding the correlation between my FTP when measured by the inRide sensor verus the KICKR Sanp to be unrealistically different. DC Rainmaker has done tests on both devices, and while neither were/are as accurate as a quality power meter, both were within +/-10%. Not sure how they compare to the other.

I just came off a rest week and am seeing threshold heart rate at 213w. I’m a Cat3 cyclocross racer and I just cannot believe these numbers that I’m seeing with the new to me KICKR Snap. Previously I had my FTP between 280-320w when using my fluid trainer and inRide. This FTP, give or take 5-10w correlates with how competitive I am in Cat3 races.

Now I’m around 250-260, if I’m on a great day, on the KICKR. However, just this morning I bailed on a very doable workout in Carson where my HR @ 213w was 90% of peak. This is a first.

Comparatively, I’m seeing greater decoupling on my Z2 endurance rides and also lower HR values at given wattages within my Z2-Z3 power.

Furthermore, I seem to be getting weaker coming off a well-executed rest week. Something I’ve never experienced in 3 years of training on TR. Regardless of which measuring device is accurate, the point is, I’m struggling through workouts that I used to relish in.

Is it possible that my KICKR Snap is showing wildly inaccurate numbers?

[mcneese.chad]

What is your calibration process and frequency on the Snap?

[anthonylane]

Trainer tire: 100-105 psi
Tension knob: 2 full cranks
Warm up: 10-min
Riding environment (garage): 55-60° F

I literally do the same protocol every workout and calibrate via the TR iOS app.

[MI-XC]

@anthonylane

Is it possible that my KICKR Snap is showing wildly inaccurate numbers?

Did you do a ramp test with the new Kickr Snap and train off you new FTP? If so the workouts should feel the same as before, even if your FTP is now way lower.

Taking the assumption that before every ride you verify that the tension knob is at 2 full revolutions once the wheel touches the drum, tire pressure is exactly the same every ride, tire is the same for every ride (preferably a trainer tire), you preform a spindown calibration after 10 minutes of warming up the trainer and the wheel isn’t slipping; the Kickr Snap may be inaccurate (to your “true” FTP) but yet consistent. Consistency is all that matters and I’ve found the Snap to be quite consistent.

[anthonylane]

I’m doing the same protocol each ride. Very mindful of this as I want to control every variable I can.

As far as consistency, yep, that’s what I’m after. If my FTP is x-watts, but I’m competitive with my peer group and gaining fitness that’s all that matters. The problem seems to be that I’m not gaining fitness, something that has never not happened whilst following presumably good structure, which I think I have over the last 6 weeks.

I’m a bit surprised at the wide discrepancy in wattages between the two devices I’ve used.

FTP can never be high enough…

[cowboyjon]

I used a kickr snap for over a year and was quite happy with it until I realised just how wildly innaccurate it was.

I began calibrating it more and trusting it less until I bit the bullet and replaced it with a tacx neo (that isn’t without its own issues) and immediately discovered my kickr snap had been reading about 70 Watts high.

[MI-XC]

I looked at your past rides. I’m not sure when you introduced the Kickr Snap, but I’ve noticed a few things. You didn’t accept a FTP test and kept your FTP higher. You trained at this higher FTP and then your FTP seemed to bounce up and down day to day. I’m guessing as you were trying to figure out what number was appropriate. So it appears you’ve been training over your FTP ( on the Snap at least) and carrying extra fatigue into every workout. This has allowed you to likely hit workouts in zones that you’re good at but struggle in others. Your z2 recovery rides had become tempo rides so you’re never truly recovering. You’re a bit over-reached and it’s catching up with you.

Suggestion: accept a new FTP on your Snap and move forward. Don’t get stuck, although its pridefully difficult to do, on an old FTP number from a different PM.

[jdman]

My kickr snap is v consistent provided I calibrate it every ride. I’m not sure how accurate it is although all the reviews I have seemed to suggest the version 2 is within 2%. My ramp test FTP on the kickr is higher than I can hold on a tt bike for an hour but I think that is more the test method as with my power meter on my tt/road bike 200W feels the same as 200W on the trainer with the internal PM of the kickr. For the original poster it doesn’t matter anyway - just do a ramp test with the snap - get the result and use it for training as consistency is far more important unless you are controlled by your ego which you shouldn’t be if you want to see decent returns on your training time

[MI-XC]

A year ago I installed a Quarq XX1 power meter and did a bunch of tests comparing it to my 2017 Kickr Snap. Though your Snap may read differently, my Snap matched quite well with the Quarq most of the time. Here are my results for reference:

[MI-XC]

@jdman

My kickr snap is v consistent provided I calibrate it every ride.

I purposely did a test where I didn’t calibrate my Kickr Snap and this was the result compared to my Quarq:

[jdman]

Yep - well 2% is of course 4W at 200W so that is more than that but I do a spin down every ride - it helps my 51 year old knees because some of the TR warm ups are pretty short - especially on some of the 60 min VO2 sessions so spending 10-15 mins spinning before that is fine by me!

[anthonylane]

@MI-XC

I looked at your past rides. I’m not sure when you introduced the Kickr Snap, but I’ve noticed a few things. You didn’t accept a FTP test and kept your FTP higher. You trained at this higher FTP and then your FTP seemed to bounce up and down day to day. I’m guessing as you were trying to figure out what number was appropriate.

I manually adjusted my FTP after having a long period of time off the bike due to health reasons. 260w felt like a conservative number, backed by the subsequent workouts. KICKR was introduced at the beginning of this month.

First Sweet Spot workout on the on the KICKR was Geiger -4 on April 1st. FTP re-adjusted to 260w. RPE and HR @ SS seemed all in-line with what I’m used to.

Interval 1: 234w NP / 162 HR
Interval 2: 236w NP / 167 HR
Interval 3: 235w NP / 170 HR

A defeating Ramp Test in which I struggle to hit a wattage target that would put me at what I thought my FTP was (260-270). Accepting this test would put me at 230w FTP or 2.9w/KG
.

Here is my first VO2max workout in like 6 months. A quick time-crunched version of Gendarme. FTP set at 275w here, all intervals nailed.

Fun comparison between Carson on 3/25 (using fluid trainer and inRide) vs Today (using KICKR)

One month apart, riding both at nearly identical times of day on same fueling (fasted AM), nearly identical FTP, but far worse RPE/HR for today’s workout. My HR is on average 10 BPM higher per interval than it was a month ago at the same wattage targets. With regards to endurance rides, I feel like my fitness is improving as my de-coupling is vastly improved on those aerobic rides and I’m setting outdoor PR, but I haven’t gained a lick of fitness at Sweet Spot and above in the last 4-6 weeks of training.

@MI-XC

So it appears you’ve been training over your FTP ( on the Snap at least) and carrying extra fatigue into every workout. This has allowed you to likely hit workouts in zones that you’re good at but struggle in others. Your z2 recovery rides had become tempo rides so you’re never truly recovering. You’re a bit over-reached and it’s catching up with you.

Suggestion: accept a new FTP on your Snap and move forward. Don’t get stuck, although its pridefully difficult to do, on an old FTP number from a different PM.

This is entirely possible, but wouldn’t you feel it on EVERY ride. Z2, SS, vO2max, ect? I don’t feel any different, fatigue wise than I have in past training blocks of SSB of similar weekly TSS and I’m fiding that my decoupling has improved significantly in the last month.

Pettit yesterday:

Pettit March 18:

A nice improvement in decoupling and Power @ 152 BPM.

The reality of coming to terms with seeing very different wattage numbers between two training devices sucks, but it’s a reality. I’m experienced enough to not judge a block by one ride, but this morning’s attempt at Carson was utterly deflating.

[anthonylane]

That’s seriously impressive. I suppose that accuracy is not the concern for those of use training with ONE power measurement device, it’s about reliable consistency from workout to workout.

[anthonylane]

Chad, at some point I think you should delete this thread (as it helps literally no one on this forum) or re-name it to “Help, cyclist in denial about his below average FTP”.

[mcneese.chad]

@anthonylane

“Help, cyclist in denial about his below average FTP”.

I’m happy to do whatever you like, when you feel it’s appropriate.