Is there any sensible way to limit the work you do as part of an outside ride?
The context: I had Spanish Needle scheduled yesterday and was expecting it to give me a different structure for outside, but it was basically the same structure. I went to a local TT loop (to avoid lots of up and downhills) and did it, but I managed to accumulate 129TSS instead of 92, in part because the 15 seconds āonā were much higher wattages than the pan called for. Even though I got a bit better at judging power as the session went on, I found going from 100W to 350W without spending quite a lot of time over 400 was basically impossible (I was using 3 second power to see how I was doing, though I also display 10 second power). I also lost count of how many intervals Iād done (I was just counting the 15 seconds in my head over and over). You can see the ride here:
https://www.trainerroad.com/career/duncanm23/rides/58348492-spanish-needle-outdoors-
Iām on the General Build plan, and I can see that there are a lot of workouts with short interval efforts coming up - are there any tricks to doing this sort of interval if I want to ride them outside?
This is one of the reasons outside workouts are partly inferior to inside workouts. The larger number of variables means that you canāt expect the same level control as an inside ride. There is no cheat here other than to learn what is necessary to hit the desired power targets.
It takes trial and error to find the right gearing and effort to hit those levels. The first few intervals in any workout are likely to be this up and down experience. Again, something required of the rider vs having strict control via ERG or mores stable Resistance from the trainer.
Itās the very reason that TR has stressed doing these types of workouts inside when possible. Their new tool allowing any and all plan workouts to be done outside comes with a notable caveat. We must acknowledge that what we gain in having more fun and enjoyment of being outside comes with a cost. That cost is the likelihood that our workouts will be over/under the prescription more often than not.
It comes down to accepting that, and possibly be more selective about which workouts we take outside. It depends heavily on the rider and their ability to apply the workout without the assists we have inside, and the subjective nature of the terrain we each have to apply these workouts.
In short, you canāt expect perfection when doing these outside.
Is there any negatives to incorporating a workout into a longer ride?
This evening my workout was an hour and 15, but it was such a nice evening I ended up doing double that.
If I have 3 hours on Saturday morning for a ride and want to do a workout, but only select a 90 min workout, am I losing any of the benefit of the workout by doing some endurance after it?
I guess this question is probably more aimed at if you were on a specific plan.
- If your extended workout leads to excessive fatigue, that then means you arenāt able to meet the demands of the next workout, that is a problem.
The workouts are set with a progression in difficulty. Each week they increase in one form or another (intensity or duration usually) and are meant to gradually stress you more each week.
Additionally, if you get a big spike in one week, followed by a lower ānormalā week to follow, you are messing with the TSS progression. Nothing is sacred, but these plans are set with a specific purpose in mind.
Altering them should be done with some thought to the implications. In general, any chance should be considered with how it will impact the next one or two workouts, if not the whole plan progression.
Yeah thatās kinda what I was thinking, during the summer though I tend to just do workouts rather than actual plans.
Itās just when the weathers good in Ireland you have to just make the most of it and forget about the TSS!
- That can work, but unless you plan them appropriately (with good progression from week to week), itās not something that can be counted on to give rewards.
- Itās marginally better than just āridingā since they are actual workouts. But I wouldnāt expect to get the same payback as following a structured plan that was set with intention to build from one point to the next.
- There is far more to building fitness than simple hours on the bike. Those hours need to be applied with direction or you get results like stagnation or regression.
If your goal is to actual build and gain fitness, Iād suggest following a Low Volume plan (to keep plan structure), use the new Outside Workout feature (to maintain workout structure) along with some non-structured play/fun/hammer rides to keep the summer interesting.
This stands a better chance than simply winging it with random selections and no progression.
Edit to add: I am likely blending responses to various riders as there seem to be 2 or 3 discussions all closely linked, but slightly different. Juggling a few threads and confusing myself 
Thatās what I do during the winter, I always do a low volume plan as generally the weather allows for outdoor rides during the winter, I would try and add the Saturday workout into an outdoor ride and then Sunday for fun/endurance.
But during the summer I do an 18 week club league, some open racing at weekends, so I tend to just go for rides on the other days I get out.
But now with the new outdoor workout feature, Iām much more inclined to actually do workouts, I just didnāt want to limit my time on the bike to the length of workouts. I want to be able to enjoy the summer too if that makes sense.
I think I will do a low volume plan and see how it goes.
Hi, there seems to be a bug that bites when you mark certain workouts as āoutsideā when setting up a training plan and then delete initial weeks and pull the remaining weeks. The descriptions of those outdoor workouts show very very very low wattages.
Longer version: I set up the half ironman build plan, marking the latter two bike workouts in each week as āoutsideā. Then I cleared weeks 1&2 as well as 7&8 and pulled week 3 back in order to end up with weeks 3-6 instead of 1-8. In the week starting July 8th the description of Carpathian Peak+2 is:
Warm Up:
- Ride for 18 minutes gradually raising your power from 2 to 3.
Main Set:- 3x16 minute over-unders. Where 1 minute is at 3 followed by 3 minutes between 3-3 repeated for the 16 minutes. Then recovering for 10 minutes easy after each interval.
Cool Down:- 5 minutes easy.
Similarly, Cloud Peak (=Pettit) says ā- Settle into 50 minutes between 1-1 watts.ā It gets a lot more challenging a couple of weeks later: ā- Settle into 50 minutes between 10-12 watts.ā
The workouts that I set up as indoor are fine, i.e. their outdoor versions show correct wattages, as do indoor versions of the above (e.g. Pettit peaks at 202 w).
The deleting and pulling probably matters because I did a similar operation with Specialty (deleting weeks 1-3 and pulling the rest 3 times). The outdoor workouts descriptions were fine before the operation but the same problem occurred after.
Thatās the ultra-recovery version of Pettit 
Thanks so much for pointing this out, @kajet! It looks like trying to push/pull any planned Outside Workout breaks the power targets in the text-based version and changes them to these super low values. Iām writing up a bug report for this for Brandon to review next time heās in the office.
Thank you again, we certainly appreciate your diligence!
I love ultra-recovery. 
@kajet, it looks like refreshing the page will fix this. That said, weāll still try to get it fixed but in the meantime, a quick Ctrl/ā + R to refresh your Calendar should be an easy workaround. Thanks for pointing it out!
@Tommy @larry Thanks a ton for the quick reaction, a refresh did restore the good old āhigh intensityā Pettit and other triple-digit power levels 
Itās not diligence as much as the fact that I use the workout descriptions to see whatās in store for the week and to execute the simpler workouts outside. Iām a bit 20th century that way
Could someone please post a picture of a Garmin Edge 530 unitās workout screen, during a workout?
I havenāt been able to find any online. Have only found pictures of the workout description.
I have en Edge 1000 and find it to be lacking some useful info in the workout screen. Especially whatās coming up.
Also, does anyone know if its possible to pause the workout without pausing the ride itself`.
(Iām thinking about buying a 530, but not if the WO features arenāt any better than the 1000ās)
I had problems with Galena yesterday. It seems like the first 30 minutes of the workout werenāt loaded to my Garmin. What could the problem be?
https://www.trainerroad.com/career/anirudh/rides/58761411-galena
I realize that you get asked this every few days, but very curious about the future of outside workouts on Wahoo given the Sufferfest acquisition news. Is that still a feature us Wahoo users can look forward to?
- Wahoo integration with outside workouts is still on and in the works.
Is Outside Workouts available for all now or still as an āearly accessā feature only?
Available for all!
Really loving the outdoor workouts! I think the indoor ones are more efficient since you donāt have to deal with interruptions (ex: traffic, intersections, etc.). But the fact I can do the workouts outside makes me more enthusiastic about doing them! And itās more fun as well! 
Video coverage from @tariqhali .
Hi TrainerRoad Team,
great job on the outside workouts. Have used a few times now since release and all working really well. Two pieces of feeedback I;d like to submit.
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Would be ace if you could do āoutsideā workouts for the warmups (Cajon, Laurel, Ramp Test etc. Not to be done on the road but to be done on the trainer in the car park but āoutsideā so that we can use our head units instead of fiddling with the phone. I say this as my phone is old and unreliable.
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When about to start some sprints, it would be good to do a 10 or 20 second countdown lap to the sprint in order to get ready. So instead of 3 mins rest then a 15 second sprint do 2:40 rest, 20 seconds āget ready to sprintā, and then the 15 second sprint.
Thatās all. Keep up the great work.
Chris.