🎉 🎉 🎉 Introducing Adaptive Training! 🎉 🎉 🎉

[Craigball]

Hi Nate
Wow A personal reply

I know you are thinking this but you are about to change training forever …

I use the type of software in the UK for pricing retail insurance and we look for predictive life time value to price both new business and renewals

I was a pro triathlete (once apon a time many moons ago) and now am a sociable cyclist looking for a balance from being CFO of a three thousand employee business

Anyway . Would love to have an offline with you on some of our key learnings as I really think you are creating a game changer

If i don’t here back the very very best of luck and continue to be an excellent CEO

[Nate_Pearson]

@bazcurtis

How would Adaptive Training handle something like this?

I have just done Wynne. The Atom reacts a bit too slowly to hit the average for the last three sprints. I hit the target, but not the average. Would this affect the AI model?

You nailed it! We trained the model to take into account trainer lag.

This is one of the many reasons why we couldn’t just do average power in intervals. That was our first approach and it failed.

[trijdc]

Thanks for the response Nate

@Nate_Pearson

To truly understand volume we need the survey response data (and maybe more). We don’t know why you stopped training or stop a workout at the moment. We also want to try out HRV, resting HR, etc to help gauge chronic fatigue.

I am not in the beta yet, but I have been tracking all of these measurements via Oura Ring and HRVTraining for a while. Is there a place that I can record these in TR or provide it through some other means so that the data science team can start to collect this data? I know how important collecting the source data is, and I would like to help in any way I can.

[Nate_Pearson]

@OreoCookie

I think you misunderstood my post: I wasn’t criticizing their rollout strategy. That’s great and I have no complaints. My point is that TR should have communicated their timeline more clearly. I have listened to the entire podcast twice, and the rollout schedule was not as clear to me as it was to you. (It was muddied by a few of the details where @Nate_Pearson said they’ll AB test some features, so it’ll be a staggered rollout, etc.) I would have renamed the section “Pricing” to “Pricing & Availability” and put a rough timeline on their Adaptive Training page.

You can see my post above. Basically we should allow the next wave in very soon.

If I put in a hard timeline people will complain no matter what. We’re sort of in a damned if we do, damned if we don’t situation.

[GeorgeAnderson]

I think its awesome that you come on the forum and post feedback to all of our questions. Chapeau sir.

@Nate_Pearson

[Nate_Pearson]

@Skilaxin1088

I could see a direct correlation with TRs system, if the vast majority of data fed in is from men who may have different power profiles, recovery rates, etc, and therefore different outcomes from a given set of inputs than women. I could see this being mitigated by having completely separate data sets for men and women. it would me a much smaller data set from women, but I suspect that would be better than prescribing women plans based on a predominantly male data set. Hopefully this is something they have taken into account, as mentioned they have made an effort to cater to women specifically and I would imagine they know a lot more about machine learning than me…

Gender is a feature on the ML model.

ML will detect if there’s relevant difference between male/female.

And the progression system already takes this into account. If you’re better/worse at anaerobic efforts we’ll find that out and adapt.

So it’s more fine grain than just gender; it’s individual to you.

[Nate_Pearson]

@RobClapham

But I am beginning to get a little bored with doing the same workouts and feel like, even though my FTP has gone up each time, the early progression V02 max workouts (30 secs, 60 secs) are too easy and I might be under-challenging myself early on) I wonder what AT will make of this. I know I could throw in a build to spice things up, but I’m pretty sure I heard @Nate_Pearson say in a podcast, if the gains keep coming keep repeating the base?

Will AT start throwing in harder workout variants each time I repeat a SSBMV2 block, knowing that I am getting very good at doing these types of workouts and could do with something to challenge me more? Can’t wait to find out.

If you’re marking the workouts with a low RPE and they are supposed to be a high RPE you will progress faster.

You can also use Workout Alternatives and try a “stretch” workout. That will also progress you more quickly.

[Nate_Pearson]

@3dflyer87

I do ~50% of my TR training with my Stages power meter on rollers (or outdoors) and ~50% on my Wahoo Kickr. They have a known 6% offset to one-another (Kickr reads ~6% higher).

Will AT attach your different specific sensors to different workouts to be able account for these offsets? This definitely becomes important with workouts like over/unders.

Thanks!

No, not right now. We’d need to record differences in different power meters and have someone type them in or something like that.

[Nate_Pearson]

@Chester_Grimpeur

So say I’m doing a plan and my weds workout is 1 hour but I have 90 mins on that day. Can I just use TrainNow and select a 90 min workout and then my plan will adapt?

Correct. Or you can use Workout Alternatives and select a 90 minute workout.

Workout Alternatives gives you a bit more fine grain control. It shows you 90 minute workouts at the same level and workout profile.

We think Workout Alternatives is the better option in this scenario.

[Nate_Pearson]

@Chester_Grimpeur

I think the point that hasn’t been answered is if this is going to be days, weeks, months, years!

Totally appreciate that you can’t give guarantees, but do you expect the majority of people to have access in days, weeks, months etc?

At the moment people know “how” you are going to roll it out… but not “when”.

Next people will probably get in this week depending on the PR status of the one above.

New features will come to EVERYONE in weeks, not months.

Of course, I could get burned by this statement if we have a very bad bug.

[Nate_Pearson]

@triggerdog

Thanks so much for the response Nate! Fascinated to see how it’s going to work and can’t wait.

Follow up question. How does AT response to you straight up manually deleting workouts from a plan. Would it try to replace it for you? And would it consider them as ‘failed’ rides if you just don’t do them?

Deleted workouts would be considered like time off or a skipped workout. So the next week would most likely get a bit easier.

[Nate_Pearson]

@pats

Hi @Nate_Pearson. I had a recent ramp test where I unfortunately lost power connection at the end. Not sure how much longer I would have been able to hold on but at that point 30sec-1min makes a huge difference
I did not accept the new suggested ftp, but will I be able to “uncheck” or delete workouts like this so that it’s not “calculated” towards other workouts in the adaptive training?
Ty

If it’s a ramp test it won’t have any impact.

If you “struggle/fail” in a workout due to a device issue there’s a survey option to say you had a device issue. That makes our ML ignore it.

[bobw]

Yesterday I had Kaiser+2 planned but subbed it for Kaiser-1, how would AT deal with that? I.e. still doing a workout in the same energy zone as that planned but either easier, as in this case, or harder?

[Nate_Pearson]

@zombo

Sorry if already answered, but for the post-workout RPE survey… in the scenario that we turn down the workout because it was far too difficult and made it do-able what should the grade be? Based on what we turned it down to, or based on the fact that we had to turn it down so that would put it in the “very hard/all out” category? What if we completely turn down a z5 ride to z2 making it essentially easy, is the right answer here to say it was an easy workout?

Based on what you actually did.

So in the Z5 to Z2 it would be an “easy” workout.

[Nate_Pearson]

@yajvans

Sorry if this question has been answered but are recovery weeks necessary when using the adaptive training feature? I hope adaptive training will be rolled out soon as I just want to enjoy riding my bike. I am someone who just uses my bike as a form of exercise and not really concerned about winning races. What I really want is to enjoy bike riding while getting faster at the same time. I am sure that there are several trainerroad users who are having similar goals.

I would suggest using Train Now for this scenario. Just ride how you feel and choose what workout looks interesting to you.

[jmdcovas]

Very exciting. I just got my new Kickr Core, can’t wait to get added to the Beta.

[Nate_Pearson]

@enki42

I hope the goal is for us to tell the app how much volume we have time for and the app can set the volume of the workouts. Add endurance to fill the unused time but mark it so it’s ready to know that workout can be skipped?

Edit - I should have read more before responding. Seems like that is the goal

But how much time is not equal to how much volume you should do.

IE I technically could ride 5 hours per day, every day, but I shouldn’t!

[Nate_Pearson]

@1coderyder

So I’m wondering if the AI will penalize me for bombing the cool downs at the end.

It will not. We ignore warm up/cool down.

[Nate_Pearson]

@timon

How cool is it for the CEO of a company to come on the forum regularly to answer questions, criticisms and expand on limitations/goals of the product. It’s not everywhere that happens, heck…maybe not anywhere.

Thanks! I think I might do my own post about how athletes want to be communicated to.

Half the people seem to like me being open with roadmap and priorities.

The other half see it as “teasing”, being dishonest, and need hard timelines.

[riku168]

Agree completely. Given the huge hype of the podcast, the rollout is a decided meh. More clarity on timelines would be very helpful. For such a data driven company TR really ought to be able to provide at least minimal reporting on numbers in the beta queue & daily movement. With slightly more effort it should be possible for TR to show people where they are in the queue, assuming they signed up to the beta with the same email address they normally use. If we are really talking months before the AT features are rolled out on a large scale to the willing beta testers, they should have just kept quite for awhile.