Thanks Chad. If/when I hear from them, I’ll pass along any info via this thread as well.
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@mcneese.chad As a middle distance triathlete who does about 98% of my total riding on the indoor trainer (Kickr w/E-Flex)----do you foresee the Plus version working additional muscles (ex: core, etc.) or having any additional benefits over the original version that may be beneficial to me on race day?
As an original E-Flex owner, I’m excited about the option to upgrade the front end in a few months. I think cost will be a heavy consideration as the original E-Flex front-end will have no resale value. (I can’t think of anyone who would ONLY want the original E-flex front-end as I’ll be keeping the original back end.) Another option could be to sell the entire gen 1 setup and buy the entire E-Flex Plus setup (even though back end is same on both).
Great question and one I will try to answer but potentially a step short than a firm claim one way or another.
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In short, I do think there is potential for more muscular activation with the PLUS over the original.
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That is partly because I think the new PLUS is just a tad looser in the stock Stiff setting than the original that has only one setting. So even stock to stock (factory Stiff) there is likely more potential for lean motion on the PLUS, which could lead to more overall body and muscle activation.
Add to that slight force difference, the direction and ratio of the steering to lean action is notably different.
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With the original, it is possible to really limit and nearly lock down the action of the unit by simply having stiff arms and resisting steering. The steering angle it takes to lean is larger which means that limiting the steering to a few degrees means even less angle on the bike.
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The direction of motion and magnitude of forces on the PLUS are different. It’s possible to control the action here as well, but the steer to lean ratio is more “natural” in a way that leads to more lean action. Compared to the note on steering above, the steering angle input to bike lean is totally reduced. Even at full lean, there is a much smaller amount of steering angle. This unit is better controlled with that angular up/down force. This is more like what we see on a leverage rocker plate than the original E-Flex with it’s “flat turn input”.
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Both units offer control, but the input direction and action is totally different. IMO, the PLUS will lead to more actual lean in use even when on the stiff setting. This was noted by my friend when we talked about the functional differences between each unit.
Then we return to the leveling force, which is now adjustable on the PLUS. As seen in my video, it’s possible to apply a very light leveling force.
- This PLUS ends up with a more active ride that is subject to even mild forces. I would bet most people won’t like it as loose as I do, but I do think many people will find that settings in the 2-4 range may be preferred once they get used to the action.
- But I am guessing there and have a clear preference to a looser feel. But the beauty here is the adjustment range that seemingly can meet a huge range of preferences.
Does that help?
I do think it’s a bummer to a degree about the potential for the original front units becoming obsolete. But I have my 3.0 mod planned for testing and release if I like it. So for those crazy enough to try, there might be a way to repurpose that. And if my concept for a Tacx Neo mod works, I may also have a unique rear section that could be used with the original fronts (modded or not) for those users. Much to work on here, but I might have some options down the line.
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Thanks so much for the detailed response! Very helpful!
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Good morning all,
Checked my email this morning to find a reply from the folks at IR… here is the bulk of the email response…
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: <info@insideride.com>
Date: Mon, Oct 31, 2022 at 20:49
Subject: Re: E-flex PLUS Upgrade?
Hello
We don’t have a full upgrade path for the complete unit, but will be selling the PLUS front ends to work with your current rear platform. We should have them in a week or so. The price will be $300.
Let us know and we’ll put you on the notify list.
Thanks
IR
So if you are interested, email them and get on this list!!
I had also asked them about a “buyback” option of the original front ends (which will be obsolete once the PLUS front end is received). Didn’t receive a specific reply as to that question, unless this was what they referring to in regards to the “full upgrade path” comment… which I asked for further clarification on!
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Thanks so much for the update! I’m likely going to email them and ask to be put on list for front end. I’d also be very interested in buyback option of original front end if they’d consider it.
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If the updated front end proves to be as good as it seems, I may just get the new one and graciously give my gen 1 to my wife. It’s really the only way I can see to not let it go to waste as I’d like to go the upgrade route too ideally.
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Totally. I think this might be one of those “pay it forward” opportunities. Perhaps people know a local with a Kickr or Core (whichever E-Flex you have) that doesn’t have trainer motion. So selling that to them at a used/discount price helps them get into motion at a lower price, and gives you some cash in hand to upgrade. I try to do that for much of my higher dollar items, and to help out others in my area.
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Yeah, i would agree with this…ALSO…
IR just replied to me once more and confirmed there will no “buyback” option as the front end alone loses its value when not paired with a rear end (makes perfect sense) and recommended selling the original unit as a whole system and re-purchasing.
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Thanks for the questions and reporting their answers. 
Makes perfect sense to me, as someone working at a manufacturer.
I just got the same response from IR. They mentioned that the rear portion has some updated features as well (which I was unaware of). I thought rear portion was identical on original and plus, but apparently not.
- I may be wrong, but I think they are possibly talking about the V1 vs V2 aspect of the rear section, that is not related to the new PLUS front end.
From the following two support docs:
E-Flex V1, The V1 has a mechanical pivot on steel parts for the lean:
E-Flex V2, The V2 has two rubber vibration mounts for the lean:
I think this is what they mean, that the V2 with the rubber mounts is what ships now along with the new PLUS front.
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Front only option of E-Flex Plus is now available for sale on IR’s website!
I’m so tempted to pull the trigger, but hate to then have a v1 front collecting dust (and no money recouped for v2 upgrade). If anyone is looking for an extra v1 front (to mod, etc.) or is in the market for a v1 system, please PM me.
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I pulled the trigger on the front only E-Flex Plus. Have used it for two indoor rides, both Zwift races. Very strange sensation as far as keeping centered on the bike. I had a tendency to “pull” to my left, which at times left me leaning towards the left side. Very uncomfortable situations and somewhat afraid of leaning too much and toppling over. Still early in getting adjusted to this front end. I’m still having a$$ pain though after riding about 1 hour.
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What setting do you have the Support Springs, still at the highest position that it comes stock?
At stock.
I just watched your video, thank you for the detail in that video. Also the links you posted helped in understanding the unit better.
I think it’s just going to take a little more time adjusting and implementing my core muscles to make it more comfortable.
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OK, good deal. This new version is what I consider to be more “active” even in the stiff setting than the original design. Some is the actual spring forces, but much is the very big difference in handlebar motion.
One trick I didn’t mention in that video:
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Think about controlling the lean with the new PLUS model by an arm/hand direction that roughly matches the fork angle. There is a push/pull or even a stiffening that works best when it aligns with that fork angle, because that is the geometry hiding within the mechanics of the PLUS.
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Not the best picture, but trying to visualize the direction of motion and/or stiffness you can use to control the motion.
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I had the pull to the left sensation as well. I ended up using some wooden wedges under that side of both front and rear to level everything, and I have the front section rotated slightly to the left as well (to push me right and compensate for the left lean)
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Overall I don’t think I’d review the system all that highly. I have it working for me but the fiddle factor is high: I have a lot of friends who would have been too annoyed to give it the time to get the setup right for proper feel. It might be the best feeling motion system out there, but for many I would bet it’s not the right system.
And the front section loosened up for the third time during last night’s race, which was an uncomfortable feeling sprinting at the end of the race. I’ve tightened the four screws several times now and they eventually loosen again. I re-applied blue loctite when I re-did them last night, hopefully that does the trick.
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Have you used any other rocker plates or motion systems? I ask because the typical rocker plate with inflatable springs has it’s own teething issues. Getting the pressures and placement of the springs to match a person’s expectation and preference also takes time and effort.
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About the only instant setup rocker is a rib style rocker that uses gravity and rider mass for centering effort. There is no adjustment so what you get at the start is all you get. Even with these, things like needing a flat and level floor are requirements to have it operate properly.
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Essentially, any motion setup will require some initial conditions (flat floor is common) and some setup time to dial it in for each rider.
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That’s true and why it’s great to have the range of options we have when looking at all those available.
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I do agree that the E-Flex has an additional setup issue with the separated front & rear sections. But I have solved that for my needs with the bridge design I shared. This might not be ideal for those riders that find a slight twist in the front section is the right solution for them, but even that may be helped and held in place with a bridge.
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Again, not something for everyone, but I find it very rewarding compared to the many other options I have built & tested over the years. Considering that some riders are happy with simple foam blocks under trainer feet, there is a huge range in desires and preferences.