I think my lack of FTP progression is causing mental distress

The bartender in the bar I used go to when I was a kid played that album non stop. Anytime I hear those songs it reminds me of trying not to get busted for underage drinking. I wonder what my FTP would have been back then…

Back on topic: my FTP has not moved much in the few years I’ve been on TR. partly because on volume - I’m putting in 6-10 hrs a week, and probably also because of training history (I’ve always stayed fit, so was closer to my high water mark to begin with), and genetics (not naturally suited to endurance sports).

This year I’m going to see if I can get to a more consistent volume of training - in the range of 10 hrs a week. Will see if that helps.

LOL… Not everyone here is pushing a 300 watt FTP.

My FTP is currently 212, but you want to talk soul crushing… when I started on a dumb liquid trainer, my estimated FTP was a lot closer to 300+… when I got a smart trainer I got a reality check… lol. Sometimes FTP is just a number that you use as a tool.

Keep in mind that most people on TR are really into cycling. There are still a few of us who do this on a recreational level and just got serious enough to start training to get faster. FTP will go up and it will go down sometime.

I had a crappy FTP test, but I figured I was overcooked from a weekend ride so I gave it another 2 days rest and re-tested and got an improvement.

3 Likes

Late in the Evening :wink:

Don’t worry, my FTP is 194, at 71 kg. I would love to get to 3 watts/kg, but even so, I’m in the lead group on the local group ride at age 67.

2 Likes

As lots of members have already said, comparing yourself to other TR users isn’t helpful. You can only control what’s going on in your life (to a certain degree) and everything else is just… a waste of your time and energy.

If it’s any consolation, I’ve just reduced my FTP by 3%. I think I came pretty close to burning myself out in 2020. Thankfully I’ve enough experience to listen to my body. If all I focused on was my FTP, I’d basically be saying that starting 2021 with a 3% reduction invalidated all of the work I put in during 2020. That simply isn’t the case.

Maybe your body is adjusting to this type of training and you’ll get a nice bump in the near future? As you said, trust the process :+1:

4 Likes

My ftp is about 168. I don’t stress about it anymore. It is what it is. I just do the best that I can. I have never been a great athlete but I enjoy getting out on my bike and the challenge of getting faster.

10 Likes

At a certain point, the only way to increase your FTP is to increase volume or intensity.

If you’re dead set on only training 3-5 hours a week (if I’m reading that correctly) you’re going to bump up against a ceiling based on volume. And at 51 years old, a 300W FTP seems like a decent ceiling.

You might want to change up the mix of your 5 hours… instead of doing sweet spot, maybe go to a polarized approach with a two- hour ride once a week, a Vo2 seesion, and two other Z2 rides.

Everyone plateaus at a certain point. Also, all of this is just my opinion - I’m not a physiologist or a coach.

Good luck🤘

2 Likes

Exactly! All about having fun and being healthy.

1 Like

It just depends what your goal is. There are disciplines that favor skill/handling (like crit or MTB) and while power is important, you can have all the power in the world and still finish behind the lower power rider if you don’t know what you are doing. In the car world, the MX-5 is a good comparison to this, a car that has never had high power but still dominates disciplines like autocross

For me I can not get in position where I let my cycling performance define me, at the end of the day no matter how dedicated I am cycling is just one facet of my life and it needs to be kept in perspective. I train hard and I am serious about my nutrition but I know I need to keep things in perspective especially since I have a mental health issue. Don’t get me wrong I want to see improvements and I have serious goals (one of which is 5w/kg, currently at 4.54) and they are very important to me but I always try to remember that my cycling performance is but 1 aspect of my life. I don’t get paid to ride, I pay to ride

2 Likes

No! :rofl:

There are dozen’s of us! Sub 200FTP checking in here. I’m at the start of my structured training (and committed dieting). Hopefully consistent training and eating in 2021 will lead to good improvements in FTP and w/Kg.

Hang in there!

2 Likes

You called? :wink:

@WOB you’re getting a bunch of great advice on here! A few thoughts.

FTP is a theoretical number. All FTP test protocols are just a way of benchmarking YOUR progress, and your progress is all that matters (not the absolute # or how it compares to anyone else). As Chad said on Beers With Chad, it’s just an assessment – and a temporary one at that. It’s just a snapshot of one moment in time. AND it does not take away from all of the benefits you’ve reaped from all of the work you’ve done! You’re moving your body consistently with the time that you have. That’s awesome! Give yourself due credit. So - with that perspective in mind…

I like to look at things like this with enthusiastic curiosity, like I’m solving a puzzle. First - you’re being consistent with your test protocol, so that’s probably giving you a good picture of your progress. (People often see different absolute results using different tests, but using the same test should give you decent benchmarks, regardless.) Second, you’ve been very consistent with your workouts, and that’s usually the prime culprit when folks don’t see FTP increases. So, we can likely eliminate those 2 factors.

I echo the suggestions of others to try fueling your workouts. Fasted riding, especially in Sweet Spot, is not only difficult, but also impairs power output at intensities > Tempo (so Sweet Spot, Threshold, VO2, anaerobic, and sprint). If you fuel and maintain higher power output as a result, workout after workout, you’re more likely to see more gains in terms of absolute power. Although your workouts are 60 minutes, they are high intensity work (if you’re doing Sweet Spot). The amount of fuel you need correlates more with intensity than with duration. 60 minutes of active recovery is fine to do fasted, but 60 minutes of Sweet Spot or VO2 work is a totally different story.

Another factor is your training history and your individual physiology. My body LOVES steady state work. I could do Sweet Spot all day long, but training in Sweet Spot increases my FTP less than progressing my Threshold and VO2 zones. It’s just how my individual physiology works. So, I see some gains in SSB, but much bigger gains when I get to Build. (BUT that’s with the caveat that I fueled my SSB blocks!)

AFTER you try fueling, you may want to try swapping in a 60 min short-burst VO2 workout like Taylor -2 or Gendarme for those longer rides, instead of swapping in a 60-min Sweet Spot workout. This will get you closer to the target TSS for those days and will give you an idea of whether your body responds well to some higher-end work. (For what it’s worth, the Build Phase will include plenty of this!) I don’t think increasing your volume is the only way to make FTP gains, especially given your time constraints. I’d try this first and give it a full block with appropriate recovery (and definitely be sure to fuel these).

Lastly, I do think it’s worth considering whether the intensity level is correct. I am naturally inclined toward Sweet Spot work, but even for me, it never feels easy. I do think (as stated) that using the same test protocol will give you an accurate picture of your progress; however, each test type does yield a different absolute value (again FTP is a theoretical number, so it’s impossible to measure directly). TR workouts are specifically designed to be used with the Ramp Test, so testing with the Ramp Test might give you a more appropriate number in terms of calibrating the intensity of the workouts correctly for you. I know some folks like to use the protocol that gives them the highest number, but that isn’t the point of the test. It’s just a benchmark to understand what your body needs right now to progress.

If you have time in your training plan, I’d suggest trying SSB I again. Start with the Ramp Test, and mentally use this as your Zero Point. No comparing to anyone else, or anything before that. This time, fuel all of your workouts. Try that for a couple of weeks and see how you feel. If you’re adjusting well and feeling good with that, then start swapping in a 60-min VO2 short-burst instead of 60-min Sweet Spot for the longer rides and see how that goes for a couple of weeks. (Fuel the VO2 workouts too of course!)

You’re doing great work already, and you’re learning a ton. The consistency you’ve shown is impressive, and for most folks, that’s the hardest part. You’re not seeing the outcomes you want (yet), but that doesn’t mean you aren’t getting a lot of things right. Ease up on the judgement, and lean into curiosity. What a cool puzzle this will be! Just think of how much you’ll learn about what your body needs and responds to best! Keep us posted please!

18 Likes

It sounds like you have some avenues to persue already.

But if you have no luck and can’t increase time, try block periodization. @jarsson shared this in the sweetspot thread:

I’m applying block periodization kind of similar to examples in the above to the stages of an FTP build structure laid out in the following video (which I’m loosely following). I guess it’s not an approach for the faint hearted once you’re past extensive aerobic… But signs are my 3 weeks of 4xSST, 1xFTP and 1xZ2 (my version of intensive aerobic) worked well. I’m now in the VO2 stage (doing 3xVO2 and 3xZ2) :tired_face:

1 Like

Whatever follows can be taken to the bank :rofl:

1 Like

I’m at 2.4 W/kg right now. When I get down to 200lbs again I’ll still only be around 2.9 W/kg. At my best I was 2.9, lol.

I’m 50, been riding for 5 years. I feel fast when I’m less fat and have trained over the winter. So I know I’m headed in the right direction being consistent.

What kind of sport background do you have? Did you ever compete?

I played a pantload of basketball and loved Judo as well. Both sports are humbling. My goal in basketball was to never be the “worst” on the court. So I worked a lot on my game. I went through a phase where I was shooting 500 jumpers during practice (about 3-4 days a week) and that helped. But I was never really that good. Some will always be better. Judo? Come on, I wanted so badly to get someone on my Tai-otoshi. But mostly fell prey to lame ass O Soto Gari counters. SHIT! Anyway I’ve applied those lessons (most of us suck, but it’s enjoyable) to other aspects. Self improvement above all, beat you from yesterday. Don’t worry about the other guy, especially when it comes to numbers.

I find that some who never competed too much have a hard time keeping numbers in perspective.

Be the best you. You’re faster than some and slower than some. It’s OK to be average.

Try to up your enjoyment above average.

And…consistency is KING.

Good luck.

2 Likes

Thank you and @ambermalika (love that advice about enthusiastic curiosity!) for more excellent advice.
I think part of my issue is that, like many of us I’m sure, I used to compete at a higher level (cat 2 track, cat 3 road) BUT that was like 25-30 years ago with a lot of non-competing after (and our training approach at that time seems VERY different from the precision of TR).
@ambermalika, does it make any difference that I DON’T feel any fatigue with SS workouts, even fasted; would you still recommend subbing in the VO2 as you suggested, or subbing a longer (1.5 hour) Baxter, as was suggested by @markb? I would rather (for time constraints) do the VO2 repeats but I am a little suspicious that I have been spending too much time at SS and have not done the longer (>2 hours?) Z2 workouts that seem (from my read of the forum) to be necessary to build the aerobic endurance. OR, am I just overthinking all this, and I need to play with all these approaches to find out what MY body needs to progress in the manner I wish?

Your probably close to your short term limit on 3-5 hours per week. You will need to add volume, probably low intensity. Do 2 sweet spot and 1 vo2 max work outs per week but any easy workouts cut and instead and add a 3 hour 55-65% ftp ride once a week for about 6 weeks, then retest. Your ftp will go up 5 % I guarantee it. :smile:

1 Like

yeah i’m on board with that…
here’s a photo of my PMC for 6 years worth of data…
granted i think my power meter in the eary days might have been a little less accurate… but wko5 measured my FTP to top out at 300 and it still generally sees about 300 at the peaks of my seasons… (other than the dip in 2017 to 2018 when i was a triathlete.


Isaac

FTP is one number and is useful for certain things but maybe you can think of other things to look at improvements. How about Strava segments? Weather dependent of course but take some segments, maybe 60s, 5 minutes, 10 minute ranges etc and see how you’re going on them?

You can really push yourself on those, harder than you might think you’re capable. These can be super motivating if done right!