Don’t. I’m trying to get to that BF.
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This week I’ve been rethinking my carb plan. Mostly I’m thinking I’m taking too much on-bike CHO, esp considering I’m using only sugar/sucrose.
I’ve been dabbling in muscle research and from the murky info I’ve managed to piece together, it seems as though there are a few different types of muscles which comprise a “muscle” (this is different than fast/slow twitch we usually discuss). Different types store different degrees of CHO, as well as functioning at different intensities.
My still-fuzzy conclusion is that SS and Threshold work probably require the most carbs (as TR has also stated); VO2max and above, not as much. Additionally, if you have fully saturated with “real” food carbs pre-workout, then you might not require any on-bike carbs depending on intensity of workout. Also, trainer rides probably require less fuel than outdoor rides because you aren’t using the whole body.
In today’s workout – 10x 3min @ 118% – I had 1 bottle w/ 50g sucrose (25g glucose/25g fructose). Considering that the fructose didn’t actually serve as fuel during the ride, it was effectively done on 25g carbs…plus muscle glycogen stores. There was no bonk or higher RPE or negative effects. Theoretically, I could have done it w/o any on-bike carbs.
I haven’t fallen off the CHO wagon, I just thought grabbing the reins and steering might be a better idea than riding a runaway impending disaster!
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Why not the functionality for vo2? Especially if they’re repeated?
I don’t understand your question? 
Probably he means why carbs are not so important during VO2 max workouts as they are repetitive efforts (so normal interval workout not singular VO2 effort) (I assume)
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“… depending on intensity and duration of the workout”.
I don’t eat anything during trainer workouts - nearly all of which are in the 1:00-1:15 range.
I do eat when I do outdoor workouts and rides which are 1:30 hrs plus and have some intensity involved.
Same logic - for workouts of about 1 hr, I figure onboard glycogen will be sufficient. I understand the effect of swishing a sugar/carb drink during in reducing RPE - separate from actually ingesting the carbs - but I’m not too worried if I miss out on that effect.
As with anything, I think sustainable moderation is the key. Do you really want to be drinking 300-400 calories of sugar every time you get on the bike to ride for an hr?
Totally depends on the focus. If you’re trying to optimize your fitness and performance instead of your health then yes, absolutely. If you’re trying to optimize your health then maybe look at alternatives, particularly for lower intensity workouts.
My strategy is go all in on the refined super fast sugars for high intensity work (for me - anything sweet spot any over) and stick to slower carbs for endurance type work. Today I did 3:30 of endurance on the trainer and ate bananas, sweet potatoes, and strawberries. Still carbs, but slower and better.
Since, by time, the majority of my bike time is in this range I’m really staying towards healthier options much more often
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Has anyone who makes their own ‘beta fuel’ mix tried powdered jelly/ jello (for you freedom lovers) as a flavouring?
Good because I didn’t understand why you thought fueling every (interval or hard) workout with sugar was a good thing.
yes, I’ve seen your (longer) workouts and FTP, both of which support the need to fuel.
Because it felt and functioned vastly different (aka WOW!) than my previous on-bike fuelling tactic of just water.
Now that the honeymoon phase is over, I can start to use in-ride carbs as a tool instead of merely a good time. 
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personally for longer outside rides I like having a water bottle and a fuel bottle (lately its been Gu Roctane) and some real food in jersey pocket. On these longer adventure rides I put Roctane powder in small zip loc bags, two bottles worth will fill a small bag. It also makes the “water refills from a fountain at park” more palatable. Drink mostly water for the first hour, unless I start going hard from the start. That has worked well for me over the last 4 years but we eat a lot of fruit and veggies in this house. For local workouts up to 2 hours, I do my workouts in the late afternoon and time meals/snacks around the workouts. So I don’t bother fueling. Yesterday it was 92F at 5:30pm start (electrolytes and hydration!), it was an easier 90-min / 1000 cal ride and came home and ate dinner within first 30 minutes. That strategy has been working well over the years as my FTP has been in 220-280 range.
p.s. we have a lot of Tupperware and there are usually leftover veggies and rice/bean/protein mixes in the fridge just in case dinner is late. If not I bought some ‘cooks in 60-90 sec’ pouches of rice/kale and black beans and Indian Dal potatoes and lentils at Costco.
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Yeah, good translation!
From my brief cobbled together understanding and calculations, working at VO2max will burn, let’s say 3.5g/min of carbs. If you’re doing a typical TR VO2max workout, you’ll be burning ~20min (TiZ) * 3.5g = ~70g carbs for just the work intervals. The entire workout might cost you ~1,000 cal/<250g carbs (fat will provide some of the calorie requirements). Your leg muscles alone, specifically those most utilized in high intensity efforts, will be able to provide those carbs, providing you’ve topped up glycogen levels. Your body should have enough carb stores to deal with other physiological events – heavy breathing, core muscle engagement, ect.
Not sure how fast organs (brain, heart, etc.) deplete CHO at high intensity so you might need a small dose of sugar water just to keep the lights from dimming during the last couple of intervals.
Assumptive science seems to be all the rage these day. 
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Gotta fuel for the work! Doing 3k kJ day after day requires that you wrap your head around nutrition, both on and off the bike
For me, the fueling is most important during hard workouts and because of overall volume
My last three weeks look like this from a kJ perspective. It is important to fuel both your workouts to help complete, but also intelligently fuel the rest of your day. For me, being this high on the weekly caloric burn, I find not only my workouts, but also my quality of life, suffers greatly when I’m not fueling at the right level and with healthy options
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I’ve also been rethinking: i) my composition of TR workouts w/ additional Z2 work, and ii) the composition, and timing, of my carbs.
i) I’m used to adding addition Z2 time at the end of the workout, which while good for adding volume, might not be the most optimal strategy for optimal adaptations. Doing extra Z2 time pre-interval I can choose to do that in a fasted state vs post-interval after I’ve flooded the system with carbs. It also allows for a greater range of Z2 adaptations to occur (as much as they can within the allotted time) vs blunted occurrence due to physiology recovering from intensity. And probably a couple of other bro sciencey points I’ve yet to think about.
ii) topping up the liver stores before sleep and after sleeping with perhaps a source of fructose. Instead of only oatmeal for breakfast, I’ll cut back on the oats (starch) and include some high-fructose items like apples, raisins, or figs; the same with post-ride recovery carbs, adding a bit more fructose. Muscle glycogen is topped up in a regular fashion and perhaps only partially filled if I’m going to fuel with “fast” carbs during the workout.
@trpnhntr is clocking in ~15kJ/min.
Doable if you have the time and carbs.
I’m at 10kJ/min over the last 2 weeks (9.5hr/wk).
2xVO2max/SS/Thresh each + 10hr Z2.
(When I was doing ~18hr/wk Z2 I was @ 7.5kJ/min…just to give you an idea how much work TRP is doing!)
Experiment #
Have a ~1,500 kJ Threshold workout tomorrow. Going to load one bottle with 50g sugar, salt, and lemon juice tonight. Hopefully by the time I drink it during the workout, the sucrose will have broken into glucose and fructose. Want to see if there is any perceived difference in energy delivery (time?). I’ll also be doing addition Z2 pre-interval.
#toomuchtimeonmyhands
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In the range of about 10K kJ per week myself. I expect that might have to go up now I feel I am ftp bump coming #gulp