Hypothesis about Ramp Test FTP overestimate

I think I might test higher on the ramp test than I can handle in terms of sustained SS / Threshold power because I did the ramp test during and just after Short Power Build. Could I be right?

Does anyone else have the experience of doing SPB and adjusting up FTP based on ramp test only to struggle to do an Eclipse or a Lamarck (or even Warlow/Palisade) at that FTP?

Thanks

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Yes. This can happen if you are better at VO2max type workouts than threshold type workouts and they recommend adjusting the workout intensity down if you’re not able to complete workouts as assigned.

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Yes, I had a huge FTP boost when I did a ramp test in the middle of the short power build phase. Since then I’ve gone back down to SSB and have done 2 ramp tests, neither of which show an increase in FTP. But strangely enough, I regularly bump up the intensity of the SS workouts by 2-5%.

I have had similar issues where I have over-tested on the RT. I am now using the un-scientific method of not exceeding a certain heart rate [for me 185] and or dropping out when I perceive my near max effort. I try to think of it as 99% of my {non-race} max effort. I am unable to complete workouts if I go to 100% max on the RT. Sometimes just dropping my FTP by 4-7 watts after a 100% effort RT works as well too.

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How’d you do on Augusta, which comes at the end of week 6 on SPB LV and MV? This one’s 30s @ 150% followed by 14 minutes @ 95%.

How much did your FTP go up from the end of SPB to the latest ramp test?

My 8 minute test came out with the exact same FTP as the ramp test. Not sure what to take away from that but thought I’d throw it out their!

The correlation between the two tests depends on your FTP-to-VO2Max power ratio. And so does the correlation between the results of either of these tests and your actual FTP.

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Ramp Tests have a lot to do with your power over FTP, and some people are better at that than others.

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I did Augusta once during SPB with difficulty (dropped power in the last part of the interval for a few seconds but then kicked up to finish the interval at avg power above target) and then once after that outside of any plan (at the same FTP). I failed the latter. By the time I finished SPB my FTP was sky high (relative to expectations beforehand) but I couldn’t maintain it. I dropped it by as much as 7.6% to be able to complete the tougher SSB LV workouts.

@LarrytheStanimal TR uses a Maximum Aerobic Power test (the ramptest) and then derives FTP based on the results of that test. So, your TR FTP is 75% of your MAP test.

75% is a valid number for a great many cyclists but for a material subset 75% of MAP yields an FTP that is either too high or too low. If you go back and read the Coyle/Coggan paper “Determinants of endurance in well-trained cyclists” you’ll see that FTP as a percentage of MAP varied dramatically among those subjects. It was ~85% for some and 65% for others.

That could be what our are experiencing. Your FTP is a lower percent of your MAP than 75%.

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Interesting. Is FTP as percentage of MAP variable with targeted training? For example, how would I change Short Power Build to incorporate that type of training without sacrificing the short power benefits of SPB? Or do I do sustained power build adjacent to short power build?

LtS

Another issue with the ramp test is that FTP can fluctuate wildly if you respond well to VO2 max training. For instance, my FTP moves very little if at all when I’m in SSB phase. But halfway into the short-power build phase and my FTP shot up 6%. When I tested again after a one week hiatus, my FTP dropped 4%.