I eat 4000+ calories on most training days. 
Sorry if that was confusing.
I think I’m with you, carb/cal counting sucks and I agree with the podcast that it’s …what’s the acceptable word/phrase…not useful.
I really happy to see this point of view promoted even if it was a minor point and not the major
To be clear, and friendly 
, you sound like you are saying you burn additional 2-3000kcals on every training day.
I train every day.
Big days are generally 2000kj.
Every day 3000 seems unusually high.
You don’t mean like on your big training days, perhaps, like once a week?
To be clear, and friendly , you sound like you are saying you burn additional 2-3000kcals on every training day.
I train every day.
Big days are generally 2000kj.
Every day 3000 seems unusually high.
You don’t mean like on your big training days, perhaps, like once a week?
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Given my normal activity level and recovery needs, I end up eating ~2500-3000 cal a day when I’m not training. My typical training rides mid week end up being in the 1200-1500 range, bigger rides can be 3000+, which are only 1-2x a week max. So off days are close to 3000, training days are 4000+. I honestly don’t “plan” how much I eat or track calories for that reason, but I will routinely keep track to get an idea of how much I am actually eating to better understand how high my metabolism is running. I don’t limit the quality foods, but I do preferentially choose foods that provide the macronutrients I am going after, and less than 5% of my diet is pre-packaged ultra-processed, and I’ve been able to get lean and actually improve performance with this method.
Very interesting episode with, for me, some good take-aways. Just worried about these numbers if I follow even the simplest baseline principles.
I realize the below is precise to an ‘extreme’, but I do/use this for the sake of the theoretical approach - the below is not my real life situation or approach
Let’s say I weigh 90 kg exactly:
90 * 1,5 = 135 grams of protein. 135 * 4 = 540 kcal.
90 * 1,0 = 90 grams of fat: 90 * 9 = 810 kcal.
If I want to lose weight, and I do, I take my BMR which is now 2000 kcal and I reduce that with 400 kcal per day. So I aim to eat 1600 kcal. From the calculation above I already eat 1350 kcal from fat and protein. That leaves a mere 250 kcal / 4 = around 60 grams of carbs left. Not really a lot, especially if I have intensive training ahead.
Tonight I’ll do Pioneer +1, according to the schedule. That should be around 750 kcal. It takes me 1 hour. To be exact on the calorie calculations, I need to reduce the calorie deficit from the workout by the amount of calories I burn in an hour without training, let’s say 2000/24 = 85. Remaining burned surplus 750 - 8 = 665.
Theoretically: Do I replenish that purely in carbs?! If it wasn’t a cycling workout but a strength/resistance training, I would think I’d best replenish mostly in protein and carbs…
(Practically: I would eat 500 kcal worth of carbs before the training, and a little bit after.)
Really welcoming any reflections on this. The fat calories for instance just seem so high. And on a day that I wouldn’t train, the carb intake seems really low.
In my humble opinion you’re trying to take his advice, but also reject his advice and stick to CICO.
I think you either go the whole way, or reject the whole thing.
Alright, maybe I haven’t paid enough attention to the podcast then. Also not my native language. What would you say is the advice that I’m rejecting?
Apologies, I wasn’t trying to be obtuse. Upthread I summarised his views on CICO and weight, and that he doesn’t pay attention to calories or use weight as anything but an indicator
So taking his macronutrients approach but rejecting his views on CICO seems to me to be picking the bits you like rather than going with his whole approach
Yes
The fundamental flaw of this approach is that you can meet your fat and protein macros but you still can’t eat carbs to infinity.
CICO still matter. No matter the approach you can’t ignore the law of thermodynamics. Tracking macros is just another way of tracking calories.
Easy, if you’re not working out at all, you get 60 grams of carbs in your example. If you are, you add carbs to match what you burned in your workouts. This isn’t religious day-to-day, but across the week.
You’re not fueling with additional protein and fat because you’ve already accounted for those in the base macro requirements.
This is a strawman argument. No one is arguing about thermo dynamics, yet so many many people use this to entrench their view on CICO.
Nutrition isn’t a physics problem.
Right, it’s a math problem.
Say what now.
Of course it is, if we’re talking weight loss specifically.
There are other considerations of course, but ultimately they only impact satiety, willpower, and motivation.
It’s a tough concept but you can get here
I don’t know why, but when I put a spreadsheet together using Kyle’s recommendations:
The only input needed is the “Weight in Pounds”. My apologies to our friends using metric units instead of freedom units.
It makes me doubt if I could do it.
For the lower range figures: 5 ounces of protein and 4 ounces of fat and 8 ounces of carbohydrates for me for a resting metabolism rate of 2469 calories.
For the higher range figures: 6 ounces of protein and 5 ounces of fat and 8 ounces of carbohydrates for me for a resting metabolism rate of 2793 calories.
It makes me hungry just thinking about how little the food weighs . It’s like my mind starts craving food it thinks it can’t have.
Yes, I know that this is a base quantity and that additional calories need to be added to compensate for different intensity exercises.
I use freedom units in day to day life in the US but even our nutrition labels are in grams. Talking about ounces of fat or protein is bonkers 
Told this already earlier somewhere here, but FatSecret app (ios, android) is really handy tool imho counting macros with a target. It’s just very clever as it recognizes huge amount of groceries by reading barcode or qr-code and even suggests default serving size automatically in an input, that is then again possible easy customize to a grams of your personal serving. Or whatever freedom units for that matter… 
Your resting energy expenditure doesn’t need to be subtracted from the work you do in the hour. A kJ burn from a cycling power meter or trainer is the incremental output. This doesn’t include your resting expenditure. So 750kJ ~= 750 kcal extra work.*
Your day is 2000 kcal BMR + 750 kcal workout = 2750 kcal.
Less desired deficit 400 kcal = 2350 kcal.
*Watch out for calorie numbers from Garmin watches etc as they sometime add in the portion of the BMR, in this case 750 + 85 = 835 kcal.